Should we learn together - or should I go solo?

[Tootsie4U]

I am going to sign up for lessons with a well known international FEI instructor (free lance). http://www.hrickalbertson.com/ The question is, do I kill two birds with one stone and use Bonfire or rent a lesson horse from the barn?

Bon's been doing tremendous and we're helping each other sort out our inefficiencies but I know I really need to work on my issues with contact. Bon's just getting the hang of going on the bit and working happily with contact. Do I mix it up and have this guy work with us as a team? Would that confuse Bon or help him?

The way Im thinking is:

I've got one horse to ride why not learn how to ride him and what works for him. He's my only plans for showing for at least the next few years.

I realize I could learn on the schoolmaster and than transfer it to Bon, but I am positive that Bon takes more umph than most other horses I've ridden (baby-ness??) I know he also likes alot of contact. So, yes I could up my experience on the schoolmaster, but I'd still have a tough time in the begining again with Bon.

[Mehitabel]

can you talk to the instructor beforehand and see what he thinks?
do you want to primarily work on yourself, or on the two of you as a pair?

what i would be mildly concerned about is that you don't just learn to ride bon - you need to learn to ride anything. i know you are mainly riding bon, but if you do have to sell him, or if he is lame and you end up riding someone else, or you might exercise one of the liveries or something, if you are only attuned to bon's quirks then you might have trouble.
also for bon's training, it is better for him if he doesn't have to be ridden in a specific way - he's already a bit funny with other riders, so it might be a good thing for you to ride others and get into the habit of not giving bon 'special' riding.

or how about the best of both worlds and alternate? then you can brush up on yourself as well as bonfire.

[anuvb]

From my personal experience, it is useful to have lessons on a school master and then transfer what you learn there onto the baby. Nothing can beat the feeling of getting something right and having the response you know you are looking for. Sometimes with a youngster because it's not been taught how to do something you don't get the response you are looking for, so if you ask for it you're not going to know when they get it right if all you've done is ride that new thing on the youngster.

When we go to an instructor we're going to them because of their extra experience, it's the same with a horse. The school masters have the experience to teach you, so why not make the most of the opportunity whilst you have it. Bon will certainly notice the difference in your riding.

Are you signing up for a block of lessons all in one go or is this going to be a regular thing? If it's a block, then I'd be tempted to split it into 50-50 or even 70-30, with the emphasis on your lessons with the schoolmasters and then with Bon.

[Tootsie4U]

I hear ya Es. Maybe chatting with the guy and/or mixing it up with other horses is the right choice.

To sort of go OT on my own post here, I have always thought it backwards to worry about not getting enough variety in the horses I ride ~ especially if you have your own horse.

Each horse has its own qwirks and preferences. It takes awhile to figure those out. So in theory, any new horse you ride will be a new learning process. I dont think that if I solely ride Bonfire for the next five years, that my life would be anymore difficult or simple if I sudenly was forced to ride another.

Backwards because, I think it would be easier to master "x" horse, figure the ins and outs, then progress to "y" horse, use what you learned on "x" and if it doesnt work, then alter what you learned on "x" to fit "y". If youre trying to figure out "x" "y" "z" and "T" all at the same time, it just seems really ineffective. Perhaps the way Im programmed :rolleyes: Lets discuss....

[Tootsie4U]

Well said anuvb.

But again, I have a "backwards" question. (And, Im only questioning Es & anuvb because I dont know - its not a snippy thing:) just the way my mind is working)

If in theory, an instructor teaches YOU how to ride in a manner that "compliments" the horse, then wouldnt it be the best use of your money to learn on a clean slate. Learning on a school master who would be "guessing and/or anticipating" what your aids mean could really foul you up.... If you get the responce your looking for on that clean slate (ie Bonfire) then you know you've hit the target.... again, just the way Im thinking...

I would hope that these lessons would be regular. But at $65 a shot, its gonna get pricey :D

[Mehitabel]

see, i find it the other way round. if i ride just petal and get used to her quirks, i then feel more at sea on a different one - when it doesn't respond like she does to the same cues it's weird.
i'm better learning basic techinque X that should work on any horse, and then play with it for horse a, b or c. if i get too used to horse a then it's harder to adapt to horse b.

think of it as like learning a language - you learn from a person who speaks well, slowly and clearly and with no regional accent. then once you can communicate with him, you move on to the people with strong accents, regional differences, speech impediments, other people who are learning the language.

2 people having a conversation in russian, who've both only been leanrning for a month, could end up saying all sorts of things. if you talk to a native speaker and then to the other novice, you know better what you want to be saying so that if they make mistakes you can allow for that.

you and bon are the novice speakers - you might think you're saying the same things, but actually be talking at cross purposes.

the schoolmaster will make some allowances and do what you mean to ask for at first, but as you improve, the schoolmaster will stop making those allowances. copper, for example, will be very generous with a novice but will do sod all for a good rider if they don't ride him properly.

bon isn't in a position to do this - he only knows what you're asking, so if you are getting things slightly wrong he knows no different. this is where problems might arise - a bit like what Galadriel (i think) was saying about teaching a horse to canter by tapping it on the ear with a schooling whip. the two if you might be communicating, but think of your future and bon's, which might not be together. it also isn't in bon's interest to have him only speaking tootsie dialect if you intend to show him or have other people riding him.

this isn't making as much sense as it does in my head...

[CarolineH]

Learning on a school master who would be "guessing and/or anticipating" what your aids mean could really foul you up....

Depends on your definition of schoolmaster. Where I'm riding at the moment, it means a horse who will only perform a movement when asked with the correct aids. If you don't ask right, you'll either get no response at all or a completely unexpected one! No guessing or anticipating involved, and very good for your riding.

Caroline

[Tootsie4U]

No wonder you make a good instructor Es, analogies! Speaking Russian! :D I see your point now.

[kedwards]

There's definitely points to be made for both. Taking lessons on a schoolmaster can improve your riding more, which can then be transfered to Bon. However, taking lessons on Bon can allow you to get some specific input from the instructor about how you would best go about riding and training her.

Even though I have my own horse, I went through a couple of periods where I made a point of taking some lessons on other horses. One was my friend's horse, who I rode and took lessons on for a couple of months while she was gone. He isn't an easy horse to ride, but he was a more advanced jumper than Bud and he was such a different type of horse that I learned a tremendous amount from him. At another time, I took a series of lessons at a training barn riding nothing but schooling horses again. I found it a great way to work on my position and technique without focusing on "Bud-specific" issues. Both of these situations most definitely transfered in terms of improving my ability to ride my own horse.

I think it's a great idea to call your instructor ahead and ask his or her opinion. Maybe you could go out with Bon for an assessment the first day, so the instructor can see you ride and make a plan based on that.

[galadriel]

I think it helps to be able to compare and contrast. When you ride just one horse, you can get so used to his quirks that you can't tell when he's not performing correctly. Being able to feel it done right, and then feel the difference, can help you figure out what you need to work on.

I think the fact that I have two horses to ride, who are such opposites, really helps me cement my own riding. There are things that Kat does extremely well, and at which Duchess fumbles all over the place. Vice versa is true also; some things Kat's just miserable at doing, while Duchess excels. Feeling it done right and getting more experience at giving precisely the right commands to really, really get it right--that helps so much when working with a horse who doesn't yet do it well.

For example, Duchess has a very relaxed, very easy trot. With her, I can trot along and ask her to extend the trot but keep the tempo, collect and keep the tempo, lengthen, etc. Kat's trot is about as choppy as they come, and currently very tense; working on Duchess and remembering how it's supposed to feel helps me work Kat on relaxing and then changing things around within the trot.

Contrariwise, Kat has an amazing long and low. She's so uphill that I don't think she could balance on the forehand if she tried. She can work that butt ;) with her nose dragging the ground. And Duchess...well, Duch is front-heavy and rump-light; we're working on building up her rump muscles and topline, but in the meantime it's good to have a chance to feel what I should be going for...so I can tell the difference more easily. I can feel clearly when she's not doing it right. (And so I know what I need to change about what I'm doing--that is, try harder ;))

[kelsey]

In my experience you will learn how to use the aids and develop feel much more quickly on a schoolmaster than on a green horse. You will also learn how to assess your own position through the horse's response to your riding.

I rode my own horse exclusively for over a year. He was very green when I bought him. We moved to a dressage facility where the (very good) trainer rode him once or twice a week and I had two lessons a week. He progressed quite quickly. Basically, she would teach him the new movements and then I would learn them. Like you, I had a lot of problems with contact (I tend to ride with way too much slack in the reins) so we spent a lot of time on this. At the same time

, we would try to work on my position. She told me over and over that I was collapsed to the right but, because my horse was too green to be really finely tuned, it didn't reflect in my riding. In fact, a lot of other people that watched me ride actually thought that I had a really good position.

Well, I spent two weeks at another facility, where the instructor specializes in seat and position. I rode her schoolmasters. They forced me to realize how crooked I was because they are schooled to respond to weight aids more than my horse. At the beginning, I was wandering all over the arena! She gave me some great tips and basically straightened me out to the point where my trainer at home is now very happy with my seat (and she has very high standards).

The moral of my story is - working with a green horse and green rider combo leaves that much less time to work on the seat, which is really the basis of all correct riding. And your horse can get so used to your riding (which may not be balanced) that he compensates for your crookedness like mine did. As a result, he will do what you ask him, but he will not be performing equally well on each rein.

I would alternate between horses, and possibly have the trainer ride your horse if possible.

Good luck!