High viz gear liability- to see or not to see.

[Laetitia]

Can anyone enlighten me. I am under the impression that if you are not wearing high viz gear riding/driving out on the public highway you don't get very far with insurance, liability etc if you are unfortunate to have an incident with a vehicle. Read somewhere of a riding accident where both horses were struck by a car. The rider wearing high viz was awarded damages , but the other one wasn't and the vehicle driver said that rider couldn't be seen and won that case.
Is it a legal requirement now? L

[Wally]

It's not a legal requirement, but it IS a legal requirement for drivers to flippin' well look where they are going. I don't see kids on the footpath and crossing the road wearing high viz, so it's okay to run them over is it?

There was a very well documented test done in the Dept. of Transport, now if you wear saturn Yellow in the countryside you are not that visible, Saturn Yellow is for the city, Dayglow orange or pink should be worn in rural areas, How many folk know that one? So be very carful which dayglow colour you wear, if some busy body solicitor digs that one up you may not have a leg to stand on in the courts if you are wearing the wrong colour.

You cannot do right for doing wrong.

[tubby]

Sounds to me as if I'm going to need a yellow hat,an orange jacket & pink chaps.What a vision!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D

[Laetitia]

Thanks Wally. So do I have to change my bright 'in your face' reflective yellow jerkin I wear over everything. I do have a pink headband on my hat. The mind boggles! so do the motorists seeing this vast yellow blob tearing down the road. L

[fair~filly]

The pink & green certainly catch your eye.
But, some drivers just aren't aware of their surroundings are they..??
I have small red flashing lights (from the pound shop) they come on a velcro strap & I attatch them to my outside leg arm & sometimes to my horses tail.
I've also got a bright orange fleece that I wear when I ride.

Don't forget the reflective gear only appears bright when a light is shone onto it. Not much use at dusk when lots of drivers haven't yet switched on their lights:mad:

F~Fxxx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Horses are Us© (http://horse.notlong.com) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Lucy J]

my reflective sheet is very bright even with no lights on it, i use it all the time. i do bieleve that bright/reflective gear gives cars an extra 2/3 seconds to see you. thats quite a lot of braking distance....

[Hels]

I've noticed motorists on the whole behave much better when you are wearing fluorescent gear - not just because they can see you better. I think instinctively they react to it as a sort of hazard sign. Especially with the 'Please pass wide and slow' notice - some of them crawl by in the ditch on the opposite side of the road, causing a hazard for oncoming traffic!

[anuvb]

Originally posted by fair~filly
But, some drivers just aren't aware of their surroundings are they..??


Neither are some riders!

Wally, ultimately I think it doesn't matter what reflective gear you wear - it still gives a driver the chance to see you and slow down. Yellow has got to be better than none at all. Most children I know don't walk along twisty and windy country roads at around dusk or in the dark, unlike a lot of riders and most drivers can squeeze past a child at the last minute or the child can jump into a ditch (heaven forbid, neither are ideal solutions). It's not really an option for a rider and a horse.

[chev]

It takes around three seconds to do an emergency stop at 30 mph. Hi-viz gear means drivers usually spot you 2-3 seconds earlier.

As far as liability goes I think if it can be shown that a rider did not take precautions such as wearing hi-viz gear and an accident happened as a result then he/she could be held responsible. Having nearly driven into a rider on a dark bay and wearing dark clothing one night I can honestly say I think that is as it should be. It wasn't just the horse and the rider this woman put at risk - it was me and my children too. I wasn't travelling fast; in fact if I had been, I would definitely have hit her.

Equally if a rider can show that he/she did ensure they were highly visible I don't see how they could be held responsible - whatever colour they chose to wear.

If in doubt choose gear with reflective silver strips - or add it yourself. That's visible wherever you ride.

[AJB]

I ride in a floursent tabard all year round and in the bright days of summer (yes uk riders remember them) and always in the winter a equafleece yellow flouresent sheet-I dont care that I look like-I live near the M25 have to hack at least 20 minutes on the road to get anywhere and anything that might help my horse or me stay safe is better than nothing-half the kids at the yard hack with nothing on which is criminal-all road riders should be made to wear high viz gear-horses have no choice but to trust us to keep them safe-they dont choose to hack on the highway we do...sorry rant over...happy hacking to all:D

[Zantetsuken]

It also might be helpful if where you are riding has one of those signs with the horse and the person riding on them..And if they don't you can have someone (Gov. or someone I'm not sure) put one up for the road and what not.

[Lovecat]

Agree totally, AJB - you are not allowed out the gate at our yard at any time of year unless you've got at least a hi-viz tabard on, and most of us also have luminous hat covers, gloves, exercise sheets, leg wraps, tail wraps, bridle attachments, flashing light boot things... the list goes on! Someone came back from a ride once not wearing a lumo and got bawled out by the YO for a good ten minutes....

We have at least 15 mins roadwork before we get a sniff of a bridlepath and it's just not safe to do otherwise. This summer a couple of us were in the forest one afternoon and we passed a group of teenage girl riders (one of whom wasn't even wearing a hat!) and as they passed us we distinctly heard one of them say 'oh, it's those wallys from Barnfield' followed by hysterical giggling - it's *almost* enough to make you wish nasty things on people :mad: - well, we may look like prats but at least we're taking responsibility for our and our horses' safety... :rolleyes: okay, that's my rant over with now!:D

[Lucy J]

yeah, i always get laughed at, but i don't care, i'd rather be laughed at than be dead or have an injured horse.

[Laetitia]

I actually wear the most incredibly aweful high viz jerkin, and brilliant strip on my hat, I also insist my groom wears the same. So we set off, virurently (SP) Visible! It works! cars slow down, lorries do a double take. I reckon they think we're the law, until they get up close and realise their mistake. I, personally, think it should be legislative law. Have a bee in my bonnett, after having nearly killed some prat wearing dark clothes on a dark bay against hedging in brillant sunshine in the summer! L

[james]

You shouldn't really have flashing rear lights as:
a) they illegal
b) a study some years ago showed that although they were more visible to drivers, drunk drivers had a tendency to steer towards them!

[Tinkerbell]

Where does it say rear flashing lights are illegal? So many cyclists have them round here, just wondered.

[james]

This cycling website explains the regulations for cycle lights:
http://www.audax.uk.net/lights/legal.htm
Strictly, you should have at least 1 incandescent bulb at the rear on a bike too and not just LED lights. Flashing lights are illegal for bikes.

This link has the regs for horses:
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/02.shtml#34

I don't know whether the laws referred to in the 1st link are specific to bikes, or whether they also apply to horses too.

I cycle to/from work every day and break the Highway Code as I do not have pedal reflectors (I have racing clipless pedals which do not have them) and do not have a rear refecltor (which I consider pointless as I just have more rear lights).

Has anyone ever been stopped and told off by the police for what they were riding (bike or horse) in the dark?r

[Tinkerbell]

You can have flashing lights on bikes but you can not use them as your only means of being visible.

[FRED]

The law regarding flashing red lights is a total a**, you must not have red flashing light fixed on your bike...but its ok to wear on your hat or clothing. So English:rolleyes: .

[FRED]

Sorry another reply..yes a serious subject this is..but L Please don't be inventing pink flashing light :eek:

Where I live the police will stop you and tell you that you must have your lights switched onto the none flashing mode..but its ok to wear the flashing light on youe coat etc, honestly...don't ask how I know;) :o

[james]

I would be interested to see what the police would do if they "pulled you over" for violating some traffic law on a horse? Would they take down the horse's freeze mark and endorse its passport?

Unless the police officer recognised you (or the horse), I cannot see there is much he/she could do if you answered that the horse's name is Shergar and your's is Lester Piggot.

Thankfully, in Britain at the moment, you have no requirement to identufy yourself to officialdom, although ID cards could change all that.

[Bertie]

Hi-Viz items are such a good idea and we should encourage as many people to wear them, I have been out when a horse out on a hack kicked the font wing of a very nice Jaguar in - nothing to do with being visible just a a stupid stupid driver.

But we should remember that the roads are for cars now not horses/ponies and riders and should do everything we can to make sure we're seen by drivers even if that does mean looking a bit like a lollipop lady!!!!:D :D

I wear my hi-viz vest, when hacking out on the roads even in normal daylight, having been brought up in around haulage yards I've learnt if you can't be seen you'll get squished!!!;) :D Like the others said it's better to look a bit silly than dead!!!

With the 80's being back in fashion dayglo and flourscents are in fashion!!!!:D

[Yann]

Working in Highway Maintenance has its compensations... I have plenty of hi vis waistcoats even if they have the name of my (ex) employer onthe back:D

I never go on the road without one on.

[Zingy]

It's so important to wear enough high vis stuff as well. Drove past someone tonight at about 6pm on a main road in rush hour. She had one of those exercise sheets in navy blue with a reflective strip and a light and a v-thing with flashing lights on . Approaching from the front first thing I saw was her horses white face. Really you need to be decked head to foot in a combination of reflective and fluorescent and lights. However visible you think you are on a horse, you're not from a drivers point of view. As someone said, reflective stuff only works when car headlights shine on it. At that point you're actually fairly close to the car. Navy blue exercise sheets may make people feel less conspicuous, but isn't that defeating the object?!

[Laetitia]

Don't the mounted police wear a light at their knee? that's apparantly the eye level of a car driver, plus below the knee of the hoss? If I squashed reflectives on nags lower legs she'd fall over, what with her knee boots, brushing boots etc. she is a trifle clumsy. Think I'll add a pink flashy light and a fog horn. L