Fork Seat?

[HairyCob]

Can someone please confirm for me what a 'fork seat' is? I think it is when the rider has the seatbones and the pubic bone in contact with the saddle- is that right?

Wether what I am describing is a fork seat or not, I'm pretty sure that is what I am doing- riding with the three bones mentioned in contact with the saddle, and at times this makes riding very uncomfortable at the pommel end of things!:o

I have tried 'tucking' my pelvis under me, so that just my seat bones are in contact, and I manage to hold that for about ten minutes, before I realise I have 'rolled forwards' again!

I think maybe this has something to do with the way my dodgy hips affect my seat, but if anyone has any tips about what I *should* be doing/ which bits *should* be in contact with the saddle/ how I can correct my seat I'd be very gratefull!

I've noticed this problem before, but it is even more noticable on my new HM saddle- which I think is because the saddle is 'putting' me in the correct position leg-wise, and my hips/ seat aren't following suit!!

[galadriel]

Originally posted by HairyCob
I have tried 'tucking' my pelvis under me, so that just my seat bones are in contact, and I manage to hold that for about ten minutes, before I realise I have 'rolled forwards' again!

It's a habit to break, like any other. At first, unless you're focusing hard, you'll often slip back--even if it's less comfortable the "old" way.

I find it's helpful to pick something recurring--like the entrance to the arena, if you're schooling--and check yourself each time you go by it. The more you check on your position and correct it, the more you'll develop the habits that you want.

[anuvb]

Also, tucking your seat bones in is the one thing you can practice in the office/at a desk without people looking at you funnily! Don't try and tuck them in too much - it's a common mistake. You're just looking for your back to be flat, not curved either way.

[galadriel]

Holding your shoulders "back" (not hunched) is something else you can practice all day, too. Not that it's necessarily related, but it's nice to be able to work on bad habits off the horse.

[cvb]

HC - difficult to judge without seeing, but maybe your 'rolled' version is a tad too rolled (which would make it difficult to maintain) ?

You don't want to roll your pelvis so much that you flatten out your lower back as you will lose any ability to absorb the movement of the horse - leading to even more ouches !

Don't know if you've done any pilates ? But often riding is about 'tone' rather than strength. PIlates talks about 'zipping up' your tummy muscles. So when you start from your 'on the fork' position, 'zip up' your tummy muscles, and carry your upper body just enough to lift off your fork. It may not require much/any change in pelvis angle at all.

ie not only do you want your horse in self-carriage, but you need to be as well :D

Try it sitting in a chair at home/office. Just 'sit' with everything relaxed, now without tensing up just lift your upper body upperwards (like someone has a string on your head they are pulling up). Imagine all your vertebra lining up like a tower of bricks and they are staying there cos they are in balance. Create more space between the top of your pelvis and the bottom of your rib cage. (Think there's something in Sally Swift about this ? imagining a ball or bubble in front of you). It may help to breathe in as you lift, but don't hold your breath once you get there (no tension allowed !). If you try it out - you should find you can breathe in more when 'lifted' than from where you started from. This 'lifted' position is actually much better for your lungs and digestion ! (thats why sofa dinners can be so bad, cos of the posture it puts you in while you're eating).

Notice what it does to you - that you are sittign differently and with different weight in seat bones etc but just through lifting. (You should see me sitting here alternately slumping and lifting ! :p

It acually takes LESS muscles to be in this balanced position, but we all tend to slump anyway :( when we're tired etc

[HairyCob]

Thanks for all your replies folks.... all of which make perfect sense as usual!

I have been doing as you have all suggested- checking myself at certain points on a ride, practicing keeping my shoulders back and trying to sit on the right bits all the time, not just in the saddle, and these things have helped considerably- last hack out I found I had actually maintained my position at a couple of 'checkpoints'

However... I still wasn't sure if I was getting it right..... it didn't feel all that secure or comfortable, although it did feel more 'correct' if that makes sense. That is until that is I read CVB's post!

It's like a light went on- I sat here in front of my computer and 'zipped' up my stomach- and WOW! With no overall re-positioning, there I was, sat on my seat bones- without contorting my back or pulling the muscles in my thighs in the process!!;)

I think I have been over doing the 'tucking under' in the saddle, which may also account for why my seat doesn't feel so secure when I try to do it 'properly'..... hang on........

Just got on the saddle on the saddle horse and 'zipped up'...... that feels so much better!!

Can't wait to get on HC and try it out- damn and blast this fog today!:D

Thankyou so much CVB- you explained that really well and have helped no end!

[cvb]

now all you have to do is work out how to be 'zipped up' AND breathe at the same time ;) :D

Glad to have been of use - came to this via Alexander Technique and Pilates. I know there can be a lot of confusion if you just use words eg with 'bracing your back' and so on without demonstrating or coaching people. But it sounds like trying it out helped make it click so I haven't led you too far astray !

[Kerry's Partner]

Hi HC,

I think it may be your hips - not necessarily because they are known to you to be v. dodgy - but still the hip joints nevertheless.

I've spent ages and ages and ages trying to "open" mine up - gosh that sounds really bad!! BUT the notion of opening your hips rather than tucking anything at all under you is, exactly, what I needed to do. Opening the hips lets the legs drop down (my experience) not at words of the expert teacher. THEN, do the equivalent of not slouching................I'd never make a riding instructor would I?

You know what I mean 'though I'm sure. When you sit in a chair - like I am now - and realise you are slouching you don't just square your shoulders up to sit up straight (well I don't anyway). Instead you lift up your whole upper body - and I've been trying this out whilst I'm writing and I would reckon I do this by using my abdo muscles and freeing up those hips. When I lift my whole upper body - not forcing it all - that's when Kerry likes my riding best. (And btw she was on the bit and posing such a brill picture when I rode her on Sunday....................in fact someone remarked that: "You looked SO elegant you must have been riding for years and years".....................well there you go, I think that's an achievement in itself given all Kerry's rests due to injuries this year!!)

Have a go - if it's no help then no harm done - if it helps then I'll be really pleased for you.

Sandra

[HairyCob]

Thanks Sandra! I think you could be right about the hips- when I sit on the saddle on the saddle horse and 'zip up' a'la CVB I can kind of feel them trying to 'open'! Will have to get myself doing the splits again- trouble is last time I did that (when I was about 10!) I managed to dislocate one of the buggers!! Ouch!;)

Maybe I'll draw the line at actually diong the splits and just do some exercises to lengthen the tendons and 'open' the joints!:D

Congratulations on being so elegant by the way:D :D It is wonderful when you have one of those moments, and 100 times more so when someone else notices:D

[Kerry's Partner]

You will damage yourself girl!! imo they need to open whilst still being a bit rotated forward but there you go. I used one of those exercise balls from Argos - and my son and daughter thought it was all a bit hilarious. But at least you have a bit of control over the degree of stretching of those inner thighs if you don't do the splits - and you know as well as I do if you overdo it it's no use at all - just be gentle with yourself.

[cvb]

Sandra - I was interested in what you were saying about freeing the hips first.

Coincidently I had an Alexander lesson on Weds and was working on arms.... But one of the basic ideas in AT is about doing less. When I then do the slump/lift thing in the chair, I think I am instinctively using my AT experience to do what you said - ie to lift without tension by allowing "my neck to be free and my back to lengthen and widen" (AT directions) and as a result allowing my hips to do what come natural and open as I lift.

So thanks for sharing cos it helped me rethink it all as well :D

Just to share the arms thing - I tend to curl my shoulder inwards. Then when I realise I do an "open shoulders" thing that I think stems from thise little-girl-ballet days. My AT teacher was saying she gets people to create space in their shoulders by using semi-blown-up ballons (satsumna size) in the armpits to change the feeling they have. For me it also helps to turn my hands outwards, which acts to release and open my shoulder without taking it out-and-back. Going to buy some ballons and try this one on and off horse this weekend :D

[Kerry's Partner]

Yep I think it's exactly the same kind of thing. You don't need to do more and we do need to understand/feel how to get to where we want to be (in spatial terms I suppose ) - and that in these two instances isn't by focusing on one bit - it's all of the other bits which act on that bit. Well that was vague wasn't it??

[intouch]

My understanding of a "fork seat" is where the weight is taken on the thighs, with the seatbones making little contact with the saddle. This is unstable and often adopted by nervous riders.
What you are describing doesn't sound wrong, it is the old "three point contact" and should give you a stable base. Try sitting half an inch further back in the saddle to give the pubic bone more clearance, keep the ribcage lifted and maybe a seat saver. Tucking your tail under will give you a turkey wobble and you will loose the sensitivity of your seat.