How can I increase Rupert's confidence to ride out alone?

[Esther.D]

Another post in the Rupert saga;)

Rupert is coming on brilliantly and is a different pony. However he still naps badly (backs up, swings around etc and ignores all aids) if I ask him to go away from the gate on his own. I know he can be ridden alone as he would go out on his own when I first bought him (albeit nervously). But one day for no known reason he refused to go out alone and has never gone more than a few hundred yards alone since. As far as I am aware nothing happened to spook him or put him off specifically - he just went from being very reluctant out alone to being impossible to ride alone. Since then I have been gradually trying to extend the distance we go from the field alone in very gradual stages and with Stephen walking with us which seems to reassure him a bit. Last weekend we managed to achieve about 1/4mile out with Mac (Rupert will normally only go out with Pablo) and go out of sight of the field before he lost his nerve and began napping.

I am just wondering whether there is anything else I can do as well or whether this slow acclimitisation is the only method.

I am not intending to hack him alone (too dangerous in our area - if I fell out on the moors I could lie there for weeks:eek: ) but I am interested in driving him eventually (thinking long term here) - something I can't do if he doesn't have the confidence to go out alone (I didn't buy him to drive....but he is an ideal driving type so I am quite tempted).

Ideas welcomed!

[Mehitabel]

how about long reining? i use this with babies to get them used to walking out in front without someone at their head. we start off with me leading and going for walks, then someone behind and someone at the head, and the person at the head gradually moves back until they're walking next to the long reiner.

long term, you need to change his attitude from 'i'm alone' to 'i'm not alone, mum is with me and she won't let anything happen to me' but given his trust issues this will be a slow process. the long reining should help though - then when he has his paddies stephen can go and reasure him and then back off again so he gets the idea that nothing bad is going to happen.

also, what do you do when he naps? do you think it's fear? if it's scared napping, i have no trouble with dismounting and leading past whatever is causing the problem. fighting it out whole on board just makes the horse think ' i am scared of X and mum got cross so it was extra stressful going past X' whereas if you make no fuss, hop off and then get back on 2 minutes later, it's 'i was scared of X but mum went past it first and it didn't eat us so maybe it isn't that bad'.

with ponies who are scared (howver unreasonable the fear is) i like to avoid battles wherever possible - you need toestablish yourself as lovely boss lady who will protect your herd from the horse-eating leaves, and gradually he will get the idea that you aren't going to ride him into the jaws of death, so when you ask him something he will just assume it's ok because you wouldn't ask him otherwise.

[Esther.D]

Thanks Es. Long reining is a good idea, I automatically long rein all my driving babies as part of their training and as a schooling method but I haven't done any with Rupert. I will have a try this weekend - weather permitting :rolleyes:

Rupert's trust has improved immeasurably on the ground - now I am greeted by being groomed every time he sees me (I spent weeks making friends by scratching his itcy spot on his neck and now he seems to have decided to return the compliment:D). He is also 100% better to tack up and will stand quietly for the saddle and for me to mount. He has also almost totally stopped crunching on his bit and will relax when ridden with Pablo (and was nice and relaxed with Mac when within sight of the gate). However he is still determined that I am going to ride him into the jaws of death if Pablo isn't there to protect him! I think some of this comes from the fact that he is very subordinate to Pablo and very much a follower rather than a leader, and that combined with lacking trust in me as a rider isn't helping.

I am slightly uncertain of the origin of the napping. I would say it is fear, except that if I carry a whip (without as much as touching him with it) he is better and we get significantly further than if I don't carry one. I am open to suggestions on this one! I don't think it is pure naughtiness as he certainly seems to be exhibiting fear and tenseness rather than all stubborness (my shetlands have shown me plenty of that at times!) I have tried fighting out the naps, but that ends in a stalemate, I have tried getting Stephen to lure him past (works if we are only asking for a few steps) and I have got off and led him. The leading helps a bit but he also naps on the leadrein.

He has two distinct types of napping - one is the going away from the field thing in which the tension just increases with distance from the field and the other is the 'oh my god theres a scary sheep' one which I can ride him through (usually with a large detour round the offending sheep) or if necessary lead him past and then we are fine again. I have managed to defeat the scary paper bags, rolls of wire etc and he no longer shys at them but apparently he is not convinced that my powers extend to beating scary sheep or the things that attack lone ponies:D

[Mehitabel]

hm. it is difficult when they're both anxious and defensively stubborn.

if he were mine, i think i would be inclined to get a bit tougher. he is a follower, so make sure you are a plausible leader. that he responds better with a stick does indicate it isn't all fear - unless his fear of a stick is so great that it overrides the fear of the monsters. what do you think? from your posts he doesn't sound as if he was *that* bad.

i am all for giving them time, but there somes a time when they, and you, just have to grit your teeth and get on with things - he has to do as you tell him and find out that it won't kill him.

don't accept the napping inhand - there's no reason for that at all. get cross and get tough, and then be really really nice when you get your way. he will soon learn (he doesn't sound stupid) that when he does what you want you are nice mummy and when he doesn't you are mean mummy. if you are too nice there's always the danger that they don;t really understand that you don't want that behaviour. in particular, be careful not to say 'good boy' when you'r reassuring him, if he is doing something you don't want. 'it's ok' or 'there there' is fine, but save good boy for when you really mean it.

another thing you can do, is when you get of to lead past, ask for something else - a rein back, a circle, something to get his attention back on you rather than on the monster. then when he is in 'obeying' mode, walk past the monster ,get back on, ride past it and then ride past it again. hopefully all accomplished without a fight. in this way you establish your boss credentials and show him that disobeying isn't an option without upsetting him.

with the going away fro mthe field naping, perhaps try distracting him, get off if bnecessary, and ask for something else - you do the parelli games, don;t you? maybe do one of them (i have no clue about them, so don;t know how they work) but something to get him focused on doing what you want rather than the fact he is doing something he'd rather not. with petal, when she is stropping about something, i make her work in a deeper outline, shoulder-in down the path, etc, just to get her mind off the strop and back onto me.

[Esther.D]

Es - Rupert isnt frightened of the stick in the slightest - I can rub it all over him and even tickle his ears with the end from the saddle and he is totally unpreturbed :D I'll try the no sympathy approach - you are right, there is a limit with how long he can get away with this, especially as I agree with you - the change of behaviour when carrying the stick demonstrates there is almost certainly some defensive stubborness going on as well as anxiety. I even know he can go out alone as I said - I rode him alone when I first bought him, he was very spooky but not napping. Thanks. We'll try long reining and generally being more positive with him.

Basically he is nothing like he was earlier this year, the issues we have now are minor in comparision, we are just ironing out the little niggles.

[Yann]

Walking out in hand might be a good way of getting him acclimatised, I did a fair bit of that with Rio in the early days. Also dismounting and leading him through a sticky spot when you do ride out.

I agree that being firm helps a lot but knowing when to be firm and when to back off can be a $64,000 question sometimes. I agree, praise to the heavens when they do go forward for you.

The other thing you my find is that there is a point on the hack beyond which he decides that's that and he might as well get on with it, Rio can sometimes be slow until we get out of sight of the farm!:)

Good luck, it sounds like you're doing all the right things.

[LindaAd]

I've been working through this one with Ginny... not there yet, but some of the things that have been suggested have helped: leading her out in a pressure headcollar has been good for getting past the refusing to go out of gate/leave friend. Hacking out with a friend or her field companion has helped too... insisting that she goes in front sometimes (she'd much rather follow), then riding the same route next day alone. Not dismounting, though - because she can whip the reins out of your hand and tank off....A stick helps, for some reason it works better if used on her neck, I've no idea why. She's not in the least afraid of it, but seems to respect it. And never setting out for a short ride unless I have plenty of time. It's a long process.

[epcd3000]

Originally posted by Esther.D
I would say it is fear, except that if I carry a whip (without as much as touching him with it) he is better and we get significantly further than if I don't carry one.

That is actually similar to Boomer. Some horses are quite intelligent, and know that if there's a crop or something of the sort, that they can't get away with as much.

I have only used the crop twice, lightly tapping his shoulder in a reminder that 'yes it's here so don't forget my aids', Other than that it's for show, and he's an angel with it. (Mind you if I used it all the time, I'd be at super-sonic-speed since he's a pretty fast ol' boy. :p )

[floppy]

been there, done that and coudl write a book about it :p

Elja when i bought her and she was still in a single box - went out no problems, angel

Elja when she got introduced to the herd - refused to leave yard, napping badly, running backwards, spinning around...etc :rolleyes:

ELja now - angel 99% of the time.

how to overcome the problem? my method evolves around food and letting her know i aint scared of her (which i must admit i was sometimes:o )

stuff alll pockets full of horse feed/pony nuts...somethign special..fav. feed. Start with horse fully tacked out and take him out for a walk...try, if pos., before the horse stops to give him a small handfull of feed on the ground. repeat this along a short route of 10-15 mins ''round the block'' sort of thing. Then always a nice feed when he gets back home. (dont forget to talk to him and tell him what a good boy he is even if he is a s*od)

When he does that without napping - takes time. reduce feed to halfway along the route. i.e before you turn to go home.

When he walks confidently away from home in hand you could try riding him. In the beginning you have to sit through his nappiness and depending on the horse and your guts let him know your not scared, be firm. ride the route, then halfway along before you turn to go home dismount and give him his feed, then remount and ride home give another feed. When this all works good..took me a while with elja but then she got the idea and willingly (well almost) went out on her own. But dont do it every day..I use to do it with elja about 3times a week alone. say mon, wed, fri. Then i use to either let her be or go out riding with someone else.

You will also probably find that the only speed you have going forwards is walk without napping in the beginning. When elja is really naughty i send her away at tolt striaght away in the beginning....then she knows im peed off with her and behaves.

I still had my problems riding her out alone at the old yard..but as soon as i moved yards and didnt have to worry abotu crossing any roads i felt alot safer dealign with the problem and we were both happier with each other. I still take a small handful of her feed with me when i go out riding, i can ride anywher ei want with her now without a problem..somtimes she is stupid but then i just send her forwards, but unlike before where i could only ride 30mins and she would start napping to go home i can ride upto 3hrs alone with her and she wont complain because she knows i might have a feed for her.

another way, is to make it a game...you postion feed along a track and encourage the hrose to walk along and stop at every feed and when he does it in walk you do it in trot. (read that in an icelandic horse book which gave me the idea of bribery)

another way would be also if someone rides away from the field on another horse and you leave 5 minutes later in the same direction.

there are a few ways to get over this...i always thought of double lunging but i was always sacred of elja really backing up on me when she was reluctant to go forwards in the first place.

hope that all made sense..if not i can try and explain it a bit better.

[Esther.D]

Thanks everyone:) I'll try your ideas and see how we go....we do have two advantages which make it a little easier

1. we are three miles from the nearest road - so he can nap all he likes and we are in no danger from traffic
2. he has never tried to rear, buck or bolt - he just refuses to go forward and messes about, so at least he is not likely to try and tank off with me;)