Mear needs some help with leading!

[Silver1]

We've taken Mear for her third 1.5 mile walk today, and we've finally gotten down what the problem is.

Mear has been very spooky, especially since she is a very laid back horse, and she was tripping and carrying on and falling off the sidewalk and just doing stuff that isn't normal for her.

Well the problem is with head carriage and leading placement. Bossy mare that she is, she wants to be *ahead* and do all the leading. So she (when she is being good) walks with her shoulder at my side while off the ranch. If she's on a loose lead she's better, especially after she found circling on the sidewalk was hard. (She would rush ahead till her hip was at my side and then hit the end of the lead rope and spin in a circle around me.) But she still won't walk with her head/neck at my side, just her shoulder.

I experimented a little with this and discovered passing the lead behind me (if she spooks and jerks forward I'm gonna be spun like a top but I had to try) caused her to drop her head because the lead rope was jerking down and back every time she tried to stick her head up like a giraffe. This caused her to spook less and tripping became nonexistant, but I've no idea how I'm gonna teach her to continue dropping her head like that as I can't go around with her leadrope around my bum forever.

I was thinking maybe of borrowing a sircingle and tieing her halter to it so that it loosens when she drops her head and tightens when she sticks it up, at least until she learns that things are less scary with her head down.

I've already tried teaching her the "Head down" from John Lyons but she won't react to it on the road. Any ideas?

[Tootsie4U]

Originally posted by Silver1
she was tripping and carrying on and falling off the sidewalk and just doing stuff that isn't normal for her. Well the problem is with head carriage and leading placement.

Hmmm. How did you come to that conclusion? Im a bit confused.

Originally posted by Silver1
Bossy mare that she is, she wants to be *ahead* and do all the leading.

Of course you know your horse better than I ever will, but Im not so sure thats what she is saying. I think she's in a new environment shes not sure of, so shes thinking fast, and therefore moving fast. Natural reaction.

Originally posted by Silver1
I experimented a little with this and discovered passing the lead behind me (if she spooks and jerks forward I'm gonna be spun like a top but I had to try) caused her to drop her head because the lead rope was jerking down and back every time she tried to stick her head up like a giraffe. This caused her to spook less and tripping became nonexistant

You might be onto something. You've given her a job to do which has focused her mind. Its the "100-push ups" theory - I think.

Harry is the Lyons expert, so I'll let him handle your question about the head down cue.

I dont know how long you've been working at this, how effective its been, or what approach you have taken. You've done wonders with your mare so I assume you haven't skipped any steps. Normally, Id suggest to you to take it tiny steps at a time, only walk a few hundred meters and thats it. Im sure you've done that. But, if I may, I suggest leaving that surcingle at home. Keep her thinking *slow*, keep her focus by giving her small tasks, stop, back, 360 turns, etc. The head will come down as she begins to relax. I think relaxation should be your goal. Just my opinion. I could be way off as I dont know the entire story.

[Silver1]

We started out working on the ranch, progressing from just a walk on the trails which she's fine, to taking a walk on the road, not very far (about 50 feet) and then returning. Then we went on a bit farther, and yes I did try giving her a lot of small things to do, lower the head, have her circle, backing her, and asking her to stand. (Stand was the hardest part) she does better when you're asking her to do things at the same time but she's still not behaving 'right'. Thats why I started experimenting, to find out what exactly the problem is. Mear is normally a very level headed mare and having her start acting like a high strung thoroughbred is really odd.

Thats when I found that the trick was to keep her head down. There is no way I'm going to force her head down, the surcingle was suggested to me because if we tied it loosely it would supposedly remind her every time she tried to raise her head. But sometimes she needs to have her head up.

I have also tried getting her to relax and sloooow down. Soothing voices, letting her stand and look at things, asking her to do things, dont' work. She sticks her head up higher and circles. She isn't looking where she's going, I have no idea what she's looking at but unless you haul her head down (which again I don't want to do) its certainly not her feet.

[luv2jump2!!!]

Have you Tried a martingale?

[Silver1]

I'd rather not go to such lengths if possible, I'm going to try working with her in the arena with some "Scary" things and see if I can encourage her to look at where she's going, possibly with trot poles or something that requires vision.

Hmmm...

[Silver1]

Update - I took Mear out again this afternoon, she was feeling fresh and was dancing around her stall so I didn't think she minded too much. This time I took her into the arena, first to find out if she is trying to tell me something, and second to see if I could tell her what I want.

Mear was not a good girl, she kept barging ahead like she's been doing lately, so every time she did that, I stopped and backed her so that her throatlatch was level with my shoulder.

I know this is crazy, but I think she thinks I'm a horse.

When I'm working with her with a loose line so she can choose how to walk, she does everything I do *EXACTLY* if I jump, she jumps. She aligns her shoulder with my shoulder and she picks up the same foot I pick up and puts it down at the exact same time.

Anyway, after about five trips around the arena at a walk, and being backed every few seconds, she got the message, sort of. She focused on keeping her head at my shoulder and....her head dropped...and stayed down, level with her withers not WAAAAY up in the air.

So I stopped her and let her rest, and added a destraction to the mix. I put a tarp down on the ground. She looked at it, sniffed it, and plodded over it. She was a little nervous and she kept looking at it and flaring her nostrils, but it only took two reminders to get her not to rush. After that she couldn't care less about the tarp and while loose walked over it rather then bother going around.

Anyway, the point of this exercise wasn't really training, it was explaining. So I left it at that and we played our fun game with the hoops.

Mear remembered ALL about stepping into the hoop, so I upped the anty a little bit and raised the hoop after she stepped into it so she had to duck her head into the hoop. Once she figured out that was what I wanted no problem!

Back outside I put Mear's halter on and led her out (I had taken it off for the fun part) and Mear immediately started her bargey bully high-headed pulling that she did while on our walks, even though we were in a place she's comfortable with. The issue? Food! Mear wants her food *NOW*

So back to work, I used the same thing we used in the arena and it took us fifteen minutes to move 30 feet. By the time we hit the stall it seemed to have managed to sink in slightly, but she was still absolutely going nuts for the food.

Incidently, all of the problems occured right about when breakfast is supposed to be served on our walks. But duuuuh too stupid for my mind to go there!

Now that I think about it she's also been acting pretty strange about her food when she gets it. She actually struck at the horse next door when he tried to steal hay from her. And though I've actually increased her food because she was dropping weight she still acts like she is starving to death. She even cleans up her new feed (which I bought by mistake and she normally hates it...)

When I went to put her blanket on, even though her ribs were showing for a little while the cinches on them had to be adjusted because her belly is swelling up, and it shouldn't because she's being dewormed regularly.

I am so, so, so stupid. I should have noticed that!

*slinks off* :o

[galadriel]

A good amount of feed and light work can lead to a hay belly--it may be reminiscent of worminess, but it's not the same. (I'm still working on reducing Duchess'.)

Still, a horse can have lingering worms despite a worming program; you might want to talk to you vet and see if he recommends anything just to be sure that she's all "clear."

[Silver1]

She's getting just enough to maintain right now, I could see lingering worms. She can only be termed as doing light work right now. She's doing an hour of long slow work 5 days a week and about twenty minutes of fast hard work on saturdays and sunday off.

When I have the vet out to have her teeth done (its not bad right now, just needs done.) I'll have her check for worms. She's already had a check up about a month ago and came out in absolute perfect health, but I don't think a fecal count was done or anything. She just said her gut sounds were fine, temperature heart and lungs were normal, etc.