We're getting there...

[Tootsie4U]

Oh, there are several things I'd like to improve, but one thing that is very difficult for me to analyze is my own position.

Mostly because I want to be able to help Bonfire as much as possible. So, Im going to put all my modesty aside and post every picture I have so as not to be biased.

Be nice ;) I havent been riding long




First - WRONG DIAGONAL!

[Tootsie4U]

fixed it. thats better...

[Tootsie4U]

Giong a bit better now, notice his head, neck, ears? Whats going on?

[Tootsie4U]

Oh my :(

[Tootsie4U]

A blurry one, wet spaghetti, eh? Actually, this one isnt half bad in comparision to his usual attempt to bend, or lack thereof.

[Tootsie4U]

Other way.

Again, head neck ears???

[Esther.D]

That looks like a 'what the hell was that ?!' kind of face :D ...but it is not obvious why...? He looks tense and unsettled by something in that pic. His attention in concentrated on you/behind him but he seems a bit upset about something? May have just been a momentary thing? Was he resisting a transition or something like that?

He seems tense in his mouth and neck....does he resist the bit?

Looking good though:) Very like a larger Rupert :D

[Tootsie4U]

Struggling a bit... BULGING!

[Tootsie4U]

After its all over, we still love each other... even dispite that mean ol' crop

Lordy, he looks like a fuzzy wuzzy in winter

[anuvb]

Bit difficult to tell where your hands are, but I think it's quite a nice position. The two points that I can see from the photos are:

(1) You look like you are tipping forward onto the front of your pelvis, so that your behind is essentially sticking out. This makes a rider sit more heavily, so you need to just tuck your tail bones underneath you a bit more. By doing this you'll probably find you can achieve a better hip knee toe line too. edit : as in pics 3 and 6

(2) Your shoulders need to be further back. You're doing what I do - rounding them forwards.

On the big plus side, you're looking straight ahead (something I don't do unless nagged - I concentrate too much and start to look down) and your hands look at a good height. It's a bit too fuzzy to tell their overall position.

[Esther.D]

that mean ol' crop

Is that maybe what he is looking a bit cross about? He knows you have it and so he has to behave himself - surrendering his dominance to you slightly ungraciously? :D

Looks very happy and relaxed with you in the pic on the ground

[Tootsie4U]

One more. "Is that carrot on your breath mum?"

I took about a dozen gorgeous pictures of him at play in the newly fallen 20+ inches of snow we got over the weekend. But, I damaged the disk :(

[Mehitabel]

he is such a handsome boy!

i'd agree with anuvb about the poking out bottom in most of the pics - it' s most obvious in the first one, and better in the second.

the head/neck/ears thing seems to coincide with pics where you look a little behind the movement - perhaps you've gotten a little left behind and landed too heavily from a rise?

if i'm being fussy, i'd like to see a straighter ear-shoulder-elbow-hip-heel line - it should be vertical. your upper body is good, but i'd like to see your whole leg drawn back and down a bit more so if we magically disappeared bon from under you, you'd land on your feet and not fall over backwards. stirrupless work will help this, but obviously that may not be the best idea on bon. perhaps something to think about if you do those schoolmaster lessons? think of 'knee and heel down and back' rather than just 'heels down' and of getting your thigh closer to the vertical.

the bulging one, i'd like to see much firmer outside aids happening - i can see your inside elbow coming back and the outside arm is so forward that he has been able to bulge the shoulder out. brign that outside arm back to control the shoulder and more outside leg, a bit further back, to ask the quarters to come over.

but overall you look secure and safe, so plenty to like in your position and i am being quite fussy!

[Tinkerbell]

I'd say well done to Es and anuvb for seeing anything on those pics. Were they done from a camera or stills from a video?

Eek! No, not crap - I thought it was digital but was surpised at the graininess, if that's the word. Maybe the lighting (so bad in indoor arenas), XOH would know...

I've only seen hips opened under GA - best of luck! :D

[Tootsie4U]

Only digital I have available, camera that is. They are crap arent they :D

Exactly what I needed! Thank you. My leg has been my biggest problem from the begining. And what you see above is an improvement!

Could be the crop, Esther. Not entirely positive though. Im gonna put up a comparision photo from awhile back.

[Tootsie4U]

This was from the VERY begining when I was risking my life just being up there. Ignorance is bliss in'it!

Talk about Hollow and my arms are scary :S Such a little pudge here too :D

[Esther.D]

Well to start with I think you have made a huge difference to his outline...look how hollow he is in the early pic rather than the recent ones:) He also looks as if he is concentrating a lot more now.

You are a constant source of inspiration of what is achievable with a 'difficult' horse...have you seen our thread about Pablo? http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27652

He seems to have done Bonfire's trick and reformed just as his time was running out ;) (we were thinking of sending him off to be trained).

[Tootsie4U]

Thank you Esther. What really is fascinating is what we've made each other. Im not the same person I was a year ago, and he's not the same horse he used to be.

I did see your post. I sat there thinking "look what a bit of time, love and patience can do". Tell Stephen he really has something to be proud of.

About picture #4, when he comes verticle - does it look like Im throwing away the contact? I've been told that I am. What do you lot see?

[cvb]

The pictures are pretty fuzzy - so you gonna get fuzzy advice :D

re: whether you're throwing away the contact in Picture 4

your hands do appear to be quite a way forward, but there is no slack in the rein. So it looks more like you are allowing the stretch from your shoulder/elbow and hence advancing your hand. What sort of weight does it feel like you have in the reins when he is going like this ? I wonder if you 'owned' your hands a little more - how would he stretch ? Does it mean that your reins are quite short normally but when he starts going nicely, that you could lengthen them a little to allow the stretch ?

The two picture with a slightly unhappy look on his face do look a little as if you are a bit behind - but bear in mind its hard to tell with fuzzy pictures plus we don't see what happened just before the picture so it could be that you are a bit behind the movement (and back in the saddle) because its a safety/security position for you !

You may need to take a little leap of faith and relax a little more than perhaps Bonfire's previous behaviour might justify. Taking some of the tension out all over would help you sit a little deeper and with a little more security. The opposite of a viscious circle is a virtuous circle, and relaxing is one of those ! ie if you are tense you often adopt a position that is actually weaker and makes it more likely that you will fall off - and vice versa.

When you have a bit of a firecracker, the first thing you want to establish is safety/control. But then you have to go with a bit of trust and allow the horse to share a bit more of the ride ie see what he'll offer you if you don't dictate the how/when/where/what of how he goes quite so much. Show him the way, and then allow him to make a choice himself.

Its a bit like being a coach rather than an "instructor". Imagine having to tell someone how to walk in a straight line - in every detail cos they are only going to do what you tell them and will not take any initiative at all. Now the same exercise but you can just say "Please walk in a straight line from A to B" and they can use their experience as to what "walk" means. Sometimes the kind of walk we 'instruct' our horses to do is not as great as they walk they would offer themselves.....

(Not that there is anything particularly wrong with the overall position - I'm just thinking what more could you do ?)

[cvb]

p.s. how much do you find you are fighting the saddle to try and maintain a balanced position ? Some of the pictures, if I dropped a plumb line from your hips, it wouldn't go through your feet. I feel like I want to drop your stirrups a bit (and envy those long legs, being more vertically challenged types myself :D ). But I'm wondering how much is the saddle affecting you ? (eg if its forward built it may be pulling/tipping you towards that position).

I think if/when you have that 'classical' shoulder/hips/heel alignment, you would find it easier to have your upper arm softly against your body and 'own' your hands a little more. (in one of the earlier pics, the line elbow-hand-bit is 'broken' which may explain Bonfire's reaction ?) You should also find then that you can get more effect from leg aids cos they'll be where they need to be, and you'll just have to nudge or squeeze inwards. (Less effort if you are disturbing your position less !)

What I'm trying to say is that I think you are in the realm of needing small adjustments which will affect the other all picture, rather than major adjustments for something that is clearly wrong in one area....

[Tootsie4U]

According to last dressage instructor, I dont open my hips enough. Almost every lesson I would hear "Get those legs underneath you". She tried to fix this with no stirrup work. But, as Es says, no stirrups right now on Bonfire is not an option :D

Also, person taking pictures is a friend, not instructor and when I reviewed the pictures later that day, I asked her why she isnt telling me to get my legs under me. She said that Bon's tempo is too all over the place for me to be able to keep my legs under me. That sometimes Im above the movement, behind the movement, etc. Whether thats valid about my legs I dont know, but his tempo is a bit uneven right now. Nothing terrible, just spurts and slow spots here and there.

I could spare a hole or two in the leathers to lengthen my leg. Do you really think thats the issue though - that my stirrups are too short?

Thanks for that so far cvb!

[kelsey]

Here are some great exercises for loosening the hips and improving the seat:

http://www.ultimatedressage.com/phplinks/out_frame.php?PHPSESSID=2255775910d897c052debbe49826b62e&ID=119

There is also a good video by Karl Mikolka called Thirty Days to a Better Seat.

No stirrups is good but only if you are not tense. It is often better to save no stirrups for the lunge line until you can stay relaxed.

[Mehitabel]

I could spare a hole or two in the leathers to lengthen my leg. Do you really think thats the issue though - that my stirrups are too short?


it's certainly possible - but if you just lengthen your stirrups without sorting the underlying hip whatsit, then you'll just end up reaching for the stirrups and losing the (very good) security you have at the minute. i have a dodgy hip that seizes up in winter, and one thing that is useful for me is to take hold of the muscle at the back/inner thigh, and pull it out and up, and at the same time think about pushing my knee down. this will put the flat part of your inner thigh against the saddle, so giving you more leg on the side, and also help open your hips.

you'll find at first you'll have to keep on putting your leg into place, as it will want to spring back to where it was, but over time it will get easier to keep it where it ought to be.
i can keep my good leg in position for the whole ride, but have to re-align my bad leg about once every 10 minutes now - at first it was about every 30 seconds!
also keep in your mind 'how would i land if bon was spirited away' and try to keep the legs underneath you.

She said that Bon's tempo is too all over the place for me to be able to keep my legs under me.

have you tried riding to music at all? even a ticking clock or a loud metronome might be useful - horses like rhythmic music and it would help him maintain a good rhythm. on the one hand, i know it's hard to keep a good position when the horse is all over the shop, but on the other hand, if your position isn't stable then he will find it hard to find his rhythm as he will be compensating for your changes in position.

[cvb]

arg - 3rd time lucky at posting this I hope ! (I keep typing it and having problems)

You should be able to keep the shoulder/hip/heel alignment regardless of stirrup length - eg when you are at jumping length vs dressage length - the only difference is the angle of the knee.

However some saddles make you work harder at certain lengths of stirrup and will tend to pull you out of alignment. eg if you have a forward cut GP and are trying to ride dressage lengths, some designs will naturally sit the rider correct for a shorter stirrup length and you end up having to work more than you should to get the right alignment for a longer stirrups.

Few of us have the luxury of a saddle per purpose, so we have to work with what we have. I think its worth experimenting a little to try and find a length that helps you a bit more - why not try an extra hole and see how it goes ?

A more stable leg and balanced position will help you stay in balance, and hence help Bonfire balance. Whereas right now he is throwing you off balance at times, and you will be returning the favour by making it more difficult for him to carry your changing position !

Another though would be to see whether you are controlling your rise when in trot, (or rather the 'fall' of the rising trot) rather than just letting gravity do the work :p So what happens if you slow and control your rise - Bonfire should start to match and mirror you. Music helps here as it gives you both something to cue to - if you keep your tempo even (rather than just following him) it should encourage him to be more even. A slower tempo may also help him balance more - but you can experiment with this as well. (At what speed do you get least changes in rhythm ?)

I appreciate the problem with working no stirrups - could you try it a halt with a helper to hold him ? Then just think about lossening, lengthening, relaxing - do stuff like circling your feet from ankles (both direction), move leg back and forward from knee, then from hip. Lift leg away from saddle from hip. All with as little change in upper body as possible. Bring legs up to pommel (like a jockey) and then gently lower back again (this is good for checking that you are really sat on your seat bones).

and so on.....