Halting

[galadriel]

I am having real trouble getting Kat to stay on the bit while halting. I must not be doing something right; every time she plants her feet her neck shoots up and she hollows.

To get her on the bit and keep her on the bit at walk, I have one leg softly on, one leg nudging with each step; I have one rein softly on, and one rein nudging with each step. In trot, I use both legs and both reins simultaneously. To go from trot to walk, I squeeze leg and seat and keep using the reins as I do in trot: simultaneously on/off. She happily stays on the bit from trot to walk.

To keep her on the bit from walk to halt, I have to have enough energy that she's almost trotting. I have tried:
* solid, alternating, or simultaneous use of calves, while squeezing with seat;
* solid, alternating, or simultaneous use of reins.
(in combinations of the above)

I'm trying to keep her impulsed and rounded, light in front and tucked under; I'm trying to keep my calf on, while squeezing with my seat to slow, and keeping a contact with the reins.

As soon as she's come to a halt her head shoots up. If I keep applying any leg aids at all after the halt, to try to keep her rounded, she stays rounded--but goes backwards. I think we're missing the concept of being on the bit at the halt at all, but I can't get it. Any use of rein+leg and she reinbacks. What else could I try?


As I'm puzzling this, trying to describe it, it seems to me that I might go about showing her the concept, by putting her in a situation where she *cannot* back up, and asking her to lift her back (leg+rein). Try to show her that on the bit at the halt is an entirely separate thing and she can do it. Only thing is, I'm pretty sure that if she couldn't go backwards, she'd go up. Rearing horse is not pleasant... Hrm.

Any ideas? :)

[helenc]

If she is reining back then you are putting too much pressure on her mouth! Keep doing the same things but being slightly softer with the hands but not too much so that she can evade the bit!

[galadriel]

If I do release the contact on the bit at all, she throws her head up. I have the same contact (perhaps a touch softer) as for movement--the halt aid is entirely from the seat.

If I don't release, she reins back.

[Silver1]

hmmmmaybe a touch of ground work? ask her to stay on the bit on long lines so if she DOES go up it won't be as punishing for you.

[galadriel]

Hmm...interesting. I don't quite see all the steps from "staying on the bit on long lines at the halt" to "halting on the bit" but I'm sure it could be done. Partly I've never really done much with long lines beyond left/right/back/whoa, and don't have a clue how to get a horse on the bit without using leg.

Where I'm drawing a blank, though, is how to set up a situation with long lines where she can't back up, where the long lines are not in danger of getting snagged or something. If I'm mounted, I can maneuver her little butt around so it's facing a fence or something, and if she tried to wiggle right or left I could use leg to counteract it.

I don't quite see how I could get her into some situation where she physically could not go backward, and I could keep her from wiggling left and right, and I could be safely out of the way (ie, not between her and a fence)--AND the lines weren't in danger of snagging on a fence or something. (It could simply be that I'm tired and my acid reflux has been really terrible for a week, so my concentration is shot.) Do you think it could be done?

[Shiny McShine]

If you are having problems with contact then there is usually something wrong with either your horse's rhythm or looseness in her work. If the horse isn't moving forward correctly in all her work, taking even steps and responding to your subtle aids promptly then she won't be able to fully relax. If she can't fully relax, ie. swing through the back, stretch her head and neck forward and down at any time (including halt), accept the aids quitetly, then she will have difficulty with taking a contact.

every time she plants her feet her neck shoots up and she hollows

This doesn't sound as if she is relaxed (loose) in her transition. So either you may need to work on more warm up type exercises to get her to relax, and really focus on the relaxing element in your work, ie. not putting too much pressure on her to do things right. OR... you have a more fundamental problem with rhythm which is preventing her from truely relaxing into her work.

What you probably need to check before you even look at the contact is whether she moves off the aids promptly and can maintain her own rhythm, ie. if you take your legs off does she maintain the pace or do you have to be constantly asking? How long does she take to warm up and start working through her back and stretching foreward and down? Can you ask her to stretch foreward and down at any point and in any gait? Same thing with the rein aids... if you give away the reins can she maintain her head and neck carraige for a while or do you have to constantly hold it in place?

Now looking specifically at the problems with halt... if you are having to keep nudging with the leg and rein continually in walk to maintain a contact then you are going to have problems in halt because ideally in halt we just want a soft contact with leg and rein to keep the horse round and connected to our aids, anymore than that and guess what? We get rein back. So this goes back to the rhythm and Kat being able to maintain it by herself more and more.

and don't have a clue how to get a horse on the bit without using leg.

If your horse is working forward in a sound rhythm and is relaxed in their work then they will look for the contact themselves. The leg doesn't "get the horse on the bit" per say, what it does is encourages the horse forward, and when she moves forward in a rhythm she can then relax and when she is relaxed she will look for that contact.

I don't think what you need is a fence to stop her going backwards, but more leg and less rein to encourage her forward... can't say it enough, forward is the path to contact. Anything else is just forcing the horse into a frame, what you want is a horse that willingly takes it because you have put them in the conditions where they are more comfortable to do so, which is when they are working forward and truely relaxed.

I hope that makes some sense and is of some help :).
Regards,
Shiny.

[Tootsie4U]

Maybe its not in the halt. Maybe its in her "go"? What I mean is, is she the firey type of the two? Halting makes some horses uncomfortalbe because they are nervous about what comes next - a boot up to canter, tug for rein backs, etc. ... what do you think? Could she be expecting and/or anticipating which makes her a bit tense? If you let her stand loosely, say for five minutes, even un-square, will she lower her head then?

[anuvb]

Are you half halting a few steps before you ask for the halt? I was taught to always half halt before you start another movement and it is helpful to just get the horse to understand that you're going to be asking for something else, which in this case is a full halt. Usually shooting the head up in the halt, means that just prior to the halt they're not working through their back correctly.

The other thing you may want to consider is using the rein back to your best advantage by using it to get her hindquarters underneath her. Before she reins back make sure she is on the bit and rein back until she offers the halt. Most horses won't rein back indefinitely. As soon as she start to slow down/halt. Release the rein contact and release the leg. Her hindquarters should be underneath her and the release in contact should make her stop. If she walks on, let her for two steps and try again until she does stop.

Are you lightening your seat just as she starts to stop? Another common mistake is to sit heavily in the halt, when you should in fact be resiting forward movement with your seat, but actually lightening the seat just a fraction to allow the back end to move through into the square halt.

Just some thoughts.

EDITED - also when you halt if she shoots her head up, ask for gentle flexion again and as soon as she gives it, walk her on as her reward. This needs to be quick especially if she has a tendency to back up. You need to almost be asking her to move on before she's flexed so that at the moment of flexion onto the bit she's is already walking forward. Once she's got the hang of it you can than ask for her to stay in halt for a little bit longer each time.

[galadriel]

Originally posted by anuvb
Are you lightening your seat just as she starts to stop?

Bingo. Played with her for a while last night, and as soon as I handled that better, she didn't entirely lose it when we halted. After a few tries I was getting halt, pause, and move on all while managing to keep her nicely rounded :) I *knew* I was doing something silly wrong. (No wonder I was having to get major, major impulsion in order to keep her on the bit into the hat at all. Poor baby.) Thanks, anuvb.

[anuvb]

'tis okay! We all have silly moments where the simplest things seem difficult! From my other thread I'm just about coping with staying in the saddle at the moment ;)