Saddle balance

[Shiny McShine]

As some of you may know I have just started in a new job at a large riding school. I have been teaching lessons and am about to start my instructors qualifictions. As part of my job I am required to take lessons once a week, which is great. I am riding a horse at the moment that I really enjoy (he is a good challenge for me, and goes really nicely when I get everything coordinated) however I have a problem with his saddle.

Since I have been using NR I have become far more aware of how the saddle can effect the performance of both horse and rider. The saddle on the horse I ride seems to fit him well as far as the gullet and panel surface goes and there is good clearance right along his spine. The problem is that he is a somewhat overweight horse and has big broad shoulders and a flat back (though he does have a reasonably prominent wither). This makes the saddle sit such that the lowest part of the seat if well towards the back of the saddle and there is a big distance from the lowest point of the saddle to the stirrup bar.

As a result I think I have been compensating for this by leaning forward when I am riding as the saddle naturally pushes me back. It is the only way I can get myself into any kind of adequate balance. Of course in my lessons I am constantly told to lean back and bring my legs back behind me. The problem is to do this requires so much effort and means that my back and hips are straining to maintain the postion. It is then impossible to relax my seat. It is obviously causing a problem for my position and I think it is also doing the same for the horse who bucks in canter transitions or anytime I am asked to use alot of seat.

The frustrating thing is that I have tried to point this out to both of my instructors and have been told that no there is no problem with the saddle and I just need to improve my position and concentrate more... that it will come with time. Looking at the saddle it is obviously out of balance but they just will not even consider acknowledging it.

What can I do? If I move the saddle further back on his back it seems to improve but will this be uncomfortable for the horse? Help!

[virtuallyhorses]

Probably not -as long as it doesn't begin to rest past the last rib (on the loins) the horse will probably find it MORE comfortable. Most saddles are placed too far forward.

[Lucy J]

yes as long as there is at least a hands width between the end of the saddle and the loins it can sit further back. I have always been advised that the saddle should sit behind the horses shoulder, you can feel the muscle, there are people in the yard that think i have my saddle too far back, but some of them have it sitting near enough on the withers, as long as my horse is comfortable i am happy. if you feel the hrose goes better with it further back then go for it!

[Shiny McShine]

Thanks, it did look way better when it was sat back a bit, and he is a reasonably long backed horse so there is probably the scope to do so. I wish I had the option of changing the saddle completely but until the yard owners (my instructors) acknowledge the problem it's not going to happen. They will probably end up telling me to shift the saddle forward anyway but if I can get away with it I think it will benefit me and the horse. I'll see how it goes :).

[virtuallyhorses]

Originally posted by Lucy J
[B]yes as long as there is at least a hands width between the end of the saddle and the loins it can sit further back. .../B]

?? With a short backed horse 'a hands width' wouldn't give you anywhere to put a saddle :) I guess you're meaning from the hip or from the back of the loins. My horse only has 2 hands width of back on which to place a saddle in the first place :)

As long as the back of the saddle is supported by the 17th rib (the last attached or true rib) there's no need for additional 'clearance' - the trick is accurately gauging the 18th rib since of course you can't find it on the spine itself but have to work up from the flanks to estimate where it is.

[Horsegal014]

I'm so happy to have found this! A few friends and I have been "discussing" where the saddle should sit on the horses back. I've read all the posts but am still left a little unsure. Anyone care to explain where exactly the saddle should be? I've seen some with the pommel of the saddle directly over the horses withers-right where the mane stops growing. And others further back, any ideas on the correct way?

[virtuallyhorses]

The saddle should never interfere with the shoulder - if it is sitting on top of the wither then it will cause a number of problems.

For horses with prominent withers such as thoroughbreds its almost impossible to stick a saddle in the wrong place but for others it can be a little harder but the saddle should still 'feel right' when it goes back into the right place.

First place the saddle forward-ish on the withers and then let it slide back onto the back. The front of the saddle should sit behind the shoulder and preferably have up to a hands width clearance behind it. To check the shoulder - place the saddle on the horse where you think it should go - then walk the horse about with your hand resting on the shoulder - you can feel the shoulder muscles moving and you should be able to see whether the saddle is interfering or not. alternately pick up the leg and manipulate it yourself (or have a friend do it while you feel what's going on) - take the leg forward and back to watch the shoulder move.

[DITZ]

someone replied to one of my threads with a brilliant method for seeing if the saddle was balanced which was simply to saddle up, stand your horse square on a flat surface and put a pen on the saddle. It will roll to its lowest point. Hey presto! Good eh?

[Tootsie4U]

Shiny, what about a riser pad?

[Lucy J]

i have never had a horse with that short a back!

[cvb]

shiny - one of the elements of saddle fitting I was taught was that the saddle had to be level. which would mean that the saddle you describe doesn't actually fit even though it might pass some of the other rules....

it will definitely affect both your balance (and the muscles you use) and the horse's movement and muscles through his back.

of course that doesn't help in that you still can't get it swapped :(

if you move it back a fraction - as discussed - then what does the wither clearance look like ?

it sounds as if its actually a bit tight at the front, and hence is nipping up. Then you have a problem that any 'aid' you bung under the saddle to try and improve the situation is likely to make it narrower still, and pinch more.

I have ridden at a school which used big foam wedges (Tootise - I'm post-migraine mode and missing words so apologies if thats what you meant as well :D ). They were just under the rear of the saddle. Seemed to have a dual effect of both helping with saddle balance and providing some cushioning against all those students ! It goes against all my heard-learnt principles, but has to be better if it helps the horse and helps you ride better !

[Shiny McShine]

Thanks everyone :). I'm thinking perhaps I should keep mentioning the saddle and trying to get it changed. It really is a problem for my riding and the horse seems to have real problems too, i.e. he attempts to buck/kick in canter transitions where my instructor has been asking for alot of seat aid from me... If it was just him being disobedient I could handle that but I really don't want to be causing him pain and I have a feeling it could be related.

I am supposed to be having a lesson with my boss on monday so hopefully he will take notice and do something about it if I approach him in the right way. Last time I told him I was mounted so perhaps he didn't notice and just passed it off, so this time I might point it out before I hop on and see what he says. I'm sure if I point out the horse's welfare he should consider the saddle change... if not then :mad:.

The other option I guess would be a foam riser pad (the school uses them on alot of other horse), but I think I would probably get in trouble for changing the horse's tack without approval, so I'll have to talk to him about it either way.

Thanks again, I'll let you know how I go :).