Balding Gag/Gags in general

[Lucy J]

Just a quickie, I like riding in a mild bit with soft hands, but ciara has been taking advantage of me and not going nicely.

I have started riding in a Balding gag with a slightly stronger than normal (still soft) hold on the reins which seems to suit her much better and she was even near enough working on the bit in an outline last night.

question is, do you think it is ok to have her in a bit like this or should i be trying to achieve the same result in an ordinary snaffle? i know they say a bit is a harsh as the hands make it, and i do have light hands. but i don't want to use a stronger bit if i don't have to.

when ciara does try and mess me around she submits more easily in this bit and i can collect her much more by riding with lots of leg into my hands and she goes nicely rather than sticking her nose in the air and twisting her neck.

what do you think?

[tasha]

Im not sure what you mean by a Balding gag.

But, I do know that Heather advocates the pelham rather than a snaffle because it teaches the horse about contact. She says once that is learnt you can put the horse back in the snaffle. You may find the same with the Balding.

[Lucy J]

a balding gag has holes in the bit rings that a piece of rubber passes through and attached to the bridle (as opposed to cheek pieces.) so if a light contact is used the bit acts as a normal snaffle, however if a stonger rein contact is taken it tightens the piece of rubber creating more leverage. it is in effect a more flexible version that that of the dutch 3 ring gag.

i did try her in a rubber pelhman but it was much too thick for her mouth and I am useless with 2 reins!

i will perhaps try her in her normal snaffle again in a few weeks then and see if she goes as well.

[tasha]

Oh I know what you mean..I think I know that as a Cheltenham gag.

[Mehitabel]

you really shouldn't use the cheltenham/balding gag with only one rein. every time you take the rein up, you're exerting upward pressure and asking the horse to raise its head. it is meant to be used with 2 reins so the gag rein is an emergency one.

[Maria]

Technically the gag you mention should be used with two sets of reins. One connected to the bit rings as normal and one attached to the gag. You should ride on the normal snaffle rein and only use the gag rein if required - ie if the horse gets strong and takes control.

That said my ex-riding school horse was ridden in a gag snaffle with one rein connected to the gag only for hacking by the riding school. I can hack her out on an ordinary snaffle now.

Using the gag rein to achieve an outline is likely to create a false outline. So I wouldn't use a gag snaffle with just one rein attached to the gag ring for schooling.

[Lucy J]

my instructor suggested i try it, firstly to have more control on a sponsored ride, I am very gentle with it, how is it different from a dutch gag on the 2nd ring if used with a steady rein contact? or should you ride with 2 reins in a dutch gag too? confused:o

i have ridden ciara in the following
loose ring german hollowmouth
full cheek fulmer
jp curved jointed snaffle
kangaroo straight bar
english hackamore
rubber pelham (2 reins)
and she has done the same thing in all of them. she is a different horse in the gag. agreed though that without plenty of leg engaging the back end it will encourage a false outline, but she lowers her head very well with it and it seems to help her circling.

i don't need to use it while hacking, she is ok in a normal snaffle, but she does everything she can to evade working properly in the school, she has had her tack, teeth and back checked and rechecked and there is definitely no physical problem. this bit on one rein eliminates the problem, so if i shouldn't be using it like this what else would help achieve the same effect?

all views good and bad appreciated!

[DITZ]

Have you thought of/tried a mullen mouth pelham rather than a rubber on, it should be less bulky. Also you can use roundings on a pelham so that you only need 1 pair of reins.

[Mehitabel]

yes, you are supposed to use a 3-ring with 2 reins, for the same reason as a pelham. with only one rein, it blurs the action of the bits, so there's no option to soften.

with a pelham with roundings, you're always using the curb and poll pressure - with 2 reins, you can choose what to use when and make the bit a lot more subtle in it's action, when the horse is good, you ride off the top rein, and only add the curb for more emphasis.

otherwise there's no effective way of rewarding the horse for good behaviour or teaching them what's not wanted - you give an 'oi' with the curb at specific behaviour, then slacken off when the behaviour stops. you can't do this with roundings and risk the horse becoming dead to the aids if they are constantly there and strong.

the difference is that a 3-ring actually has lowering action on the head - the top ring swivels forward and exerts poll pressure similar to how a pelham works. (which is why it is a snaffle, not a true gag.)

the cheltenham gag raises the mouthpiece in the mouth when you pull on the reins - the leather bits slide down through the rings and there's nothing to stop them so no end to the raising action.
an american gag is a kinder version, as the mouthpiece can only go so far before hitting the joint of the rest of the bit. pic here of an american gag - easier to explain with picture. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3650860084&category=3167#ebayphotohosting) there's nothing to stop the upwards action of a cheltenham gag.

if she were mine, i'd be having some lessons to try to sort out the evasions.

[Lucy J]

we have regular lessons which was why my instructor suggested this, i also have a proffessional ride ciara now and again and he has similar issues that i have although he is better at managing her. perhaps i just need to ride much more strongly in a normal snaffle.

[Yann]

It's a very severe bit but if it works, and you're using your legs to get the outline rather than your hands, then maybe it is a valid training aid. If you have an older horse who has never worked on the bit it can be difficult at first to teach them what you are asking of them. So long as you are getting a true outline and not just a broken neck then it's a start.
I currently school Rio in a rubber pelham with roundings and an elastic curb and because the action is clear but not particularly severe if she resists I'm now normally able to ride her round on quite a soft contact and at times no contact at all now. She will round up in a snaffle but is much happier with the pelham. I did try with two reins but found I had a contact on the curb a lot of the time anyway. It may not be regulation but it's worked for us, I've no doubt I'll be able to reintroduce the snaffle soon enough when she's really established.

Whats better, 'pulling the horses teeth out' in a regular snaffle or using light rein aids with something stronger?

[Lucy J]

well I think that's where I am at. I don't want to become heavy handed in a regular snaffle, i'd rather stay light in this, however now I seem to have sussed out what she responds to I will strive to get the same effect in a normal snaffle once she understands what is expect of her.

thanks everyone.

the american gag is interesting, it looks as if it stops the upward action but the shank looks awful long, surely that would increase the leverage and make it harsher?

maybe I need to buy a book on bits!

[Aphrodite]

As long as the horse is comfortable and working well, and you have had her back, teeth, tack etc., checked like you say you have (well done for checking that first!) then carry on with what you're doing. She's obviously happy in it or she wouldn't work so well!

[Yann]

Just thought I'd add that I tried Rio back in a snaffle in the school and she went around like a trooper, nice and round and soft, so the theory does work.
Will probably stick with the pelham for now though as she isn't quite as settled in the snaffle and seems to prefer the mullen mouth to a french link.

[Lucy J]

well I rode ciara in the gag on Saturday and she went really well, i actually ENJOYED! riding her for a change! we jumped well, did circles had nice transitions

i tried her in a normal snaffle on sunday, and although a little better she started doing her nose in the twisting neck thing again, i did ride in a different saddle pad though, so maybe that has something to with it too. her canter transition was awful!