Using my legs

[MARA]

I am a beginer rider and I have been having real problems to get the school horses go into trot without a whip.
On my last lesson my instructor lost his patience with me and told me that even his 4 year old daugther could do it better. Also he started chaisng the horse around the school as to prove that it was me and no the horse since he moved when he shouted.
He even made the horse go into canter although he knew I haven't cantered yet.
I am over reacting or am I right to be upset about the instructor aptitute?

Also any tips on using my legs more effective?

[Peace]

Also any tips on using my legs more effective?

Yes! Move them rapidly in the direction of another riding school! ;)

Your instructor is not doing your confidence any good by belittling you, and chasing your horse into canter when you're not ready for it could have hurt the both of you.

I started out at a school just like this one. Not only did I not learn squat in the few lessons I had there, but then I had to spend money/time on remedial lessons instead of progressing with my riding.

Don't walk - run to the nearest exit!

PS - Sorry, meant to also add that *all* beginners have trouble using their legs, because it takes time to build up riding muscles. And virtually all schoolhorses know this and give beginners a hard time about it.:) But it's good to be on a pokey horse in the beginning anyway - they may be aggravating, but they'll keep you safe.:)

[spirit]

Don't worry
what you do is you make sure the horse is listening to your aids clearly and has a good walk which is fast.

then don't get tensed up and start banging his sides really hard because the horse won't take any notice of you.
sit up tall and look up and squeeze the horses sides if this does not work then give him lots of little nudges which are soft kicks that the horse can feel and as soon as he breaks out into trot start doing rising trot and make sure you have short reins.

also the horse may be not moving because you are to tenced and need to relax and you may have to shorter reins.

remember you don't use the whole of your leg to make your horse walk on just the lower leg.

hope this works sorry if it dosen't .

Spirit :D :rolleyes:

[Scarlett 001]

As for getting the horse into a trot. I find that some horses respond quickly to a subtle leg aid and some just do not. I agree with person who said that it is okay to have a somewhat pokey, slower horse at the beginning. If the horse is very responsive, and you are a beginner, you could end up with problems as you accidentally knock the horse with swinging legs, or pull on its mouth. A horse who will have some patience with a beginner is not a bad thing. Besides, it forces you to really learn the leg aid (once you get it!) and then just think how easy it would seem on a responsive horse! ;) Good advice has already been given re the trot issue - there are just some additional thoughts.

Oh and as for that instructor. I agree with Peace. Move those legs to a new school soon! Immediately if I were you! What a dangerous and nasty-sounding instructor. I had a very dangerous fall (came out of it without long-term injuries - but that was mainly just luck - it could have been quite bad) as a direct result of an instructor with a negligent attitude who put us into dangerous situations (what is with your instructor chasing the horse around - sounds very stupid and dangerous to me). Also she insulted me all the time (sounds like your instructor), which made lessons awful. She made fun of me if she raised a jump, and I told her I was not ready for a higher jump yet (heck, none of use in the class were ready to jump yet at all - we could barely canter - we were just a bunch of passengers on our horses going round in circles cantering on a bunch of very overtrained school horses who new what to do, even if we did not give the correct aids!).

I switched schools and while my instructor corrects mistakes, it is done in a positive manner. And I feel much safer not being exposed to dangerous situations continually. I am much happier at my new school - I bet you would be too!

[gail_rose]

I definitely agree with Peace and Scarlett about moving schools. You are paying this person to teach you how to ride, and by belittling you and taking away your confidence they are obviously not teaching you anything of value!

Learning to ride is difficult for everybody, and it takes a while for your balance and all the muscles that you use to develop. Your instructor should be supportive and know your limitations and capabilities, not shout at you for being a beginner!!

My last instructor was great, she knew I was scared of jumoing, but told me I didn't have to do it if I didn't want to or I could stop if I'd had enough. She also told me that she knew I could do it, and this gave me so much confidence I jumped a 3' course on a new pony without any problems!

Find a new riding school straight away where they actually pay attention to you and your riding needs! Let us know how you get on,

Gail x

[MARA]

Thank you. I can't change schools at the moment as it is near to work and no far from my house either.
To be honest it didn't make me lost confident at all as it happened so quickly that I didn't even knew I was cantering at first. I just thought it was out of order and that an instructor should be simphatetic even if he is having a bad day.
Maybe I should be better since I have been having lessons once a week for a while as he said but still no reason to get cross. He should be use to it if he is an instructor.

[Scarlett 001]

Originally posted by MARA
Maybe I should be better since I have been having lessons once a week for a while as he said but still no reason to get cross. He should be use to it if he is an instructor.

I've been riding for over a year now and while one horse I ride (Madonna) is easy as anything to get trotting, Skeeter (the other one I ride) needs a bit more encouragement and I have to wait a bit longer before the trot happens. Point of telling you this is that even after riding a year, these things don't come automatically.

Okay, back to the instructor. I feel very strongly about this, having gone through almost the same thing myself. The rude comments of the instructor are bad enough but if you are willing to put up with it, so be it. But safety is sooooo important and I really have huge doubts about someone who yells at a horse to start trotting and especially cantering with a newcomer on board. A slightly longer drive to the stables is worth it for your safety. It really is. Until something happens, it is all too easy to dismiss dangerous instructors. I guessed that some negligent things were happening at my first school but kept on going there. Then came the accident that was due to the negligence of the instructor. I don't want to go into details here but I could have been very badly hurt and the whole thing could have been avoided with a good instructor providing a safe riding environment. I have a 50 minute drive to my stables - quite a long drive really - but I am willing to do this to get good, safe and also positive (e.g., constructive comments on things to improve) instruction. Is there another instructor at the school you could switch to if you are not willing to switch schools???

[maya-m]

Your instructor's behaviour was so outrageous. I'm really glad it hasn't caused you to loose confidence. To insult you by comparing you to his 4yr old shows HIS weaknesses as a teacher, not yours. You are unlikely to learn much from someone like this, so don't waste your money on him. See if someone else at the school can teach you, or have a calm and firm word with him, and make sure he realises how serious you are. It's easier when someone is this blatant, than when the insults are so subtle as to be doubted. If you can, get a better school, don't waste your time and money.

Best of luck, I'm sure you'll get on fine as you are questioning, and thinking. Don't let these ignramuses get to you.

x Maya

[Tangle]

Hi MARA,

sorry to hear you're having instructor problems - I agree with the others, that it doesn't sound like your current instructor is doing a very good job. His 4 year old daughter may be able to do it better, but she's also quite possibly been riding much longer than you.

Is there a reason why you can't carry a whip? I'm not advocating beating up horses, but when I started the view was if the horse doesn't listen to a leg aid then a quick flick of the whip (as a kind of - "Oi! wake up!" signal) is much better than continual niggling/kicking. And over a year down the line I still can't always get a trot easily - some horses have so many beginners they learn to ignore weaker aids.

Can you do anything like Yoga or Pilates? They're both really good for improving muscle tone, balance and muscle control - all of which will help and only come with time :)

[MARA]

Hello. I do carry a whip but I forgot it last time. I was thinking about and I just think He just lost it completely with me. It is not easy to change schools at the moment due to travelling distance.
I think I will change instructors if I can.I didn't feel unsafe at any time though as it happened so fast.

[cvb]

Is this a private or group lesson ? If private, you could maybe ask for a lunge lesson and some clear advice on how to do it better (ie put the ball back in his court as thats where it should be ! )

As a beginner you go to lessons to learn, not to have what you already know pointed out to you. You already knew you were having problems - his role is to help you with that !

[anuvb]

Grr, instructors like this make me mad.

Okay so you can't change school that easily, but next time he does this, don't back down. Keep asking and nagging him to explain what he means by using your legs. Make him break it down into little pieces one by one and if needs be ask him to demonstrate. Actually, thinking about it, that is a fairly good idea on anything you are having trouble with at any time, not just when your instructor looses his cool. A good instructor knows it is their job to "instruct" you in the things you find difficult. A 4 year old maybe able to do it, but there will be things a 4 year old will find difficult which you won't. As an instructor he should know this.

Keep asking questions, even if you feel you make yourself look silly, still do it. After all, you are paying to learn from this man and the only way you'll do this is by asking him the bits you don't understand.

In my childhood school we had a sign on the door of my class room, it's possibly a quote, but I can't remember it exactly (too long ago) but the jist of it was important and applicable to everything we all learn. It goes something like this....

"Children don't learn by being asked questions, but by asking them".

That's true of everyone, whatever age you are. Your instructor should know this and be prepared to have an open dialogue with you on the things you find difficult.

[Jodie & Ru]

This kind of thing really makes me cross because at the end of the day these lessons are meant to be fun!!!! If you don't feel like you're ready to move on, then don't do it. It's much better to be confident at what you're currently working on than being pushed in to say cantering/jumping when you're not quite ready.

I've personally gone completely back to basics again after a huge knock in my confidence and realise that i'm not going to be bulied in to moving on to quickly (which has happend before).

hope you manage to sort things out.

Jodie

[galadriel]

Originally posted by MARA
Maybe I should be better since I have been having lessons once a week for a while as he said but still no reason to get cross. He should be use to it if he is an instructor.

He should, indeed. You will learn at whatever rate is right for you. Shouting at you certainly won't make you learn faster.

Comparisons to a 4-yr-old are out of order, too. If she's an instructor's daughter, then not only has she probably been riding longer--she also probably rides more often. Riding is like any other skill; the more often you practice, the more you hone your skill. You're only practicing once a week. You need reasonable expectations from your instructor!

[galadriel]

With that said, I wanted to add some actual tips for using your legs, since you asked :)

A lot of riding school horses are ridden by beginners. They get used to the rather uncoordinated and coarse aids that beginner riders use. As a result, many *won't* go faster without a whip; they're so used to legs flailing away at them that they've ceased to have any meaning. Legs banging on them could just be the rider flapping because her seat isn't secure yet, or because she hasn't got much strength in her legs yet. The whip, on the other hand, *always* means "pay attention and go faster."

If your lesson horse is "dead to the leg," then you're not going to have much luck learning to use your legs properly on him. There are lots of other things to learn at this stage--how to ride without bouncing, how to be comfortable at walk, trot, and evntually canter. You need to develop the muscles that will help you move with the horse, and keep your legs from flapping.

Eventually, you will have a chance to ride a more sensitive horse, one who actually responds to the leg. When you do, you'll be able to start honing your leg aids. A sensitive horse responds well to a subtle command. I'll describe it for you:

When riding a horse who's not "dead to the leg," you'll want to keep your calf softly on his side at all times (you can practice this with ny horse). Let the leg "cling" but don't squeeze. This lets you hold the leg still unless you want to use it, and your legs will be steady; you won't accidentally kick the horse.

When you want to use your leg, you softly squeeze the calf. You don't have to pull the leg off the horse at all; you don't have to thump his ribs; you don't have to use force. You're just gently asking for what you want, and if he can feel your leg, he will respond to that gentle request. Unlike a horse who is dead to the leg, a more sensitive horse will not have braced all his muscles against the expected thumpings, and will actually be listening for more soft commands from the leg.

So anyway, don't worry too much about the use of your legs, without the whip, just yet. You may not even be riding a horse who'll listen to your leg (and listening to the instructor shouting isn't the same at all--shouting is not the same as a leg!)

[cvb]

one of the things we quite often end up reflecting on here, is that some instructors forget to tell you the b****ing obvious - and how are you supposed to know unless they tell you ? Despite being an adult, horses and riding are new and you don't just 'absorb' the knowledge out of thin air ! (unfortunately ;) )

Anyway. Get some nice friend to stand behind you and put their thumb and forefinger on/around your rib cage. Now we all know that there is one point that if someone squeezes it, we can't help but react. But if the friend gets you any where else, your reaction will be zero or very small. If they just clamp their hand around you really tight, you probably just lean into the pressure or your side will go numb (or you'll just do anything to get away from it). If they have a light tough, why react ? If they nudge however - especially if they hit that 'sweet' spot - you'll react :D

Now find a nice friend who will let you experiment on them - do the same thing but change roles. Now you have to indicate to the friend which way you want them to go, and how fast, just using your hands on their rib cage. You can swap roles so you get to 'play' both sides of the story.

Now apply what you've learnt to your riding. It does matter where your legs are on the horse, and it does matter how you apply them.

Yes horses can feel an insect on their coats - but we also train them to ignore some things we do and listen to others, so that they can tolerate eg a saddle and rider.

As has been said, the horse's training also makes a difference. So the horse needs to know that you know what you are doing and mean it. This is about assertive intent, not agression and force. Often school horses need the pyschological motivation of the rider carrying a whip to believe they mean it. (because of their experiences in the school).

[octavia 100]

sorry your instructor is not helpful but about your legs I still havent got legs that make the horse do what I want or at least not for the whole lesson then when I need to change diagonal and sit for two it all goes pearshape and the horse grinds to a walk if I do get a horse that is a bit more responsive then I am so totally taken aback that I put on the brakes:mad:

[makebelieve]

What a horrible instructor! :mad:

I agree to move your legs quickly to another school. Anyone who compares you to a young child is not only being mean, but being very unreal. I don't like when people compare each other. No one is better than the other, you know. No matter how old you are, you should never, ever be put down. Have you told your riding school? Plan to leave there as soon as you find another place.

Your pony could be just stubborn, and thats that. Kicking the pony won't do much good but nor will just nudging him/her lightly. Your instructor doesn't do anything though about helping you? That is so cruel. Instructors are there to help you, not make fun of you or just stand there and blurt out commands. If I have a problem, I tell mine "What can I do?" or "What position should my leg be in?". It never, ever hurts to ask whats wrong.

Your position could be wrong. Make sure you can't see your toes, but you don't want them too far back. I find a horse is much more easily moved by applying pressure behind the saddle flap, but it isn't good for your position. Tell him that you don't understand what to do to help him, or find another instructor at your farm who is way more willing to help you.

[galadriel]

Originally posted by octavia 100
when I need to change diagonal and sit for two it all goes pearshape and the horse grinds to a walk

Sounds like you're grabbing with your knees when you sit. Many horses are trained to slow when you squeeze with your seat and thighs, and grabbing with the knees will achieve about the same effect.

[hackedoff]

Hi Maya, nice to see another London rider : waves: you are probably paying a princely sum for this inadequate teacher too aren't you? Riding in London is not cheap and frankly you are not getting value for money. If you are stuck at that school you need to speak to whoever is in charge and swap instructors, no-one should have to put up with being spoken to like that, sounds like it is the instructor who needs the whip not the horse :eek:
Try visualising what you want the horse to do- this really helps me- think forward, light, steady, imagine the horse breaking into a trot as you give the aid and relax those hands to allow the beast forward.
Best of luck

[fair~filly]

I agree with hackedoff :) ...visualisation helps. though it's hard to think positive with an instructor like yours I guess.
My pony is quite dead to the leg after years in a riding school, but he goes really well to the voice. You may be applying all the correct aids but the horse doesn't know them.
There are some great instructors out there so don't give up just yet ;)

F~Fxxx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Horses are Us© (http://horse.notlong.com) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[octavia 100]

hows it going Maya? Ive decided to do more work on the lunge. Was reading one of the replies from Galadriel who sounds such a perfect instructor now Im sitting down very heavy on the horse in rising trot in order I think to use my legs which makes the hores slow down even more tried standing in stirrups with horse trotting yersterday very difficult at first getting my balance but at least my instructor is trying different things out with me,good luck with it all anyway

[Tumbleweed]

Mara

I am a beginer rider and I have been having real problems to get the school horses go into trot without a whip.

Tumbleweed

Welcome to the world of horse riding, and most school horses won't go without a whip with beginners.

Mara

On my last lesson my instructor lost his patience with me and told me that even his 4 year old daugther could do it better.

Tumbleweed

As an instructor this horrifies me. I would make a complaint to the owners about this.

Mara

Also he started chaisng the horse around the school as to prove that it was me and no the horse since he moved when he shouted.

Tumbleweed

No, he didn't prove that the horse would go to your legs, all he did was prove that the horse would go when chased and shouted. This makes me wonder how he treats the horses when he is out of sight.

Mara
He even made the horse go into canter although he knew I haven't cantered yet.

Tumbleweed

This is very dangerous and he doesn't have a right to put you in danger. The chances of you falling off and hurting yourself were high and this is not acceptable from any instructor.

Mara

I am over reacting or am I right to be upset about the instructor aptitute?

Tumbleweed

No, you are not over reacting, you have every reason to be upset when he puts you in this amount of danger and speaks to you like this.

When you start to ride a horse, you are using muscles that you haven't used, probably since you were a young child, and these muscles have to be built up slowly or they can be damaged.

When you put your leg onto a horse, you are moving your legs in a way that they probably have never been used, and will be extremely weak until they build up strength. It depends to a great deal on your age how quickly they build but, the younger you are the quicker they build up.

Most adults are not balanced when walking or sitting, and this spills over to riding. You can tell someone who works in an office by the way their back is. Someone who has/does a lot of running can't get their heels down because when running, their muscles at the back of the leg never extend the same way.

Whe we sit on a horse, we should be sitting on our butt, many don't because they are gripping with their knees or legs, this lifts the butt out of the saddle so that it is suspended over the saddle, which helps towards you being wobbly and unstable.

You will need to be more stable in the saddle before you can use your legs properly, and although lunging can help with a good instructor who knows what they are doing, it can also do a lot of damage to your muscles.

It will come together when you have built up your muscles, but this does take time. You can help by doing exercises in between riding lessons. Stretching exercises are good because they make your muscles more flexible especially standing with your toes on the bottom of a step or the stairs and bouncing gently up and down so that your ankles absorb the movement and helps your leg and ankles become more flexible.

I hope this helps you to understand what is happening to your body when you start to do something new like riding.


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