Help with Backing!

[Lucy J]

Hi all,

a few of you know i am backing a 6 year old NF pony at the moment, well i have a bit of a problem....i can sit on him, but we either have halt or flat out panic gallop (still nursing bruises!). he is very unsure about walking with someone even leaning across his back. how can i get him to accept someone on his back while he is walking? he just freezes or panics and run.

also, i am trying to teach him to long rein, but he doesn't understand left right or stop! makes things difficult when he runs off with me! he is so strong!

[casey]

Unfortunately your horse is acting normal. Basically, he is trying to balance himself under the riders weight. The good thing about unbacked horses is they tire very easily. You have to go with him, no matter what he tries. Thats why only the experienced normally back their own horses. Others are sent away to reputable trainers.
It can be done. But it requires patience.
Personally, I dont like to long rein. I will longe, but not too much as if they're too fit, your back to being tanked around the school not knowing when they'll stop.

Good luck:)

[Mehitabel]

what i do to begin with is have them in the school about 5 strides away from the fence, pointing straight at the fence. then when i lean over and they walk on, there's a physical barrier and a definite goal - they realise they only have to walk a few steps. then stop, pat, get off and do it again.

to help with the long reining, you need someone on his head to begin with and doing most of the steering and controlling - he won't understand rein aids on his own!

any new thing with babies needs to be combined with something they already understand - so combine longreining with leading to begin with.

you say he's unsure about walking with you leaning over - so do nothing further until he has accepted it. you mustn'r progress until he is not only putting up wiht, but completely unconcerned about the previous stages; however long that takes. you need solid foundations for his ridden career, it's worth taking time over.

[Lucy J]

yeah he's great with leaning on and not concerned with sitting on, but only to stand still. i'll keep working with him. the problem is, even though there is always someone holding him, and he does this on the lunge as well, if he turns the opposite way then you can't pull him round on the lunge and he's off!

he's much better with his bridle now though, i can put it on and off normally. and even when he runs away he still stops and comes back to you and lets you unwrap the lunge rein!

i just need to get him not to use his flight mechanism so much!!!!

[Happychik]

I had the same problem with a youngster and have posted a few threads on here about her. She is now riding beautifuly.

She was a bucker not a bolter but still the same problem staying on her. I left her to think things over for a month or so and then started again very slowly back to the whole lunging with the saddle on in the arena and stuff and gradually she has come to accept it is actualy quite nice to go off the yard for a little wander now and again.

She is still strong (shes a 4 year old highland by the way) but is begining to enjoy being ridden and her behaviour has gradually got better and better.

I think the little break showed herit wasn't the end of the world to have a rider on her back.

but as every one has their own ideas on how you should break horses you will receive a lot of advice from a lot of people you just have to try every thing until you find something that clicks with your horse.

Good luck and keep us posted:)

[Mehitabel]

it'll come. he hadn't been handled much whe nhe came to you, had he? so all this is incredibly new. also, foresters do have a more developed flight instinct as they have closer ancestors living wild/feral. especially ponies who were born on the forest or whose parents were. a forest-bred pony may have had to run for his life at some point (or he thinks so, even if it was just a car or something!) and often the drifts are their first experience of people and it isn't much fun.
even stud bred ponies have close relatives on the forest, so it's there in the genes still.

[shaka]

I have always backed horses and ponies using a natural horsemanship method, where they are very relaxed with the whole thing. We make sure we have their complete trust and then take things very very slowly making sure tyhey are all 100% OK with what is happening.

i agree with Es in that take it one step at a time. If he isn't happy with something, don't progress further untill he IS happy with it.

One thing we did with one pony was to strap a small lightweight sack to his saddle. We let him buck and run it all out untill he was happy with it, before fixing it into a more upright position so he could see it more. Once he was fine with this, we could back him fine with no problem. We taught him the aids by 'bumping' him. Opening the right rein to 'bump' his off fore into moving, then bumped him with the left rein, then by using right leg to get his off hind moving and so on untill he was to move carry us across the school in walk.

[ggabby]

when you are leaning over him,get your helper, you really need 2. one steadying you,leaning over, the other at his head,all on the near side, get you handler to bring his head around to the left,show the pony a carrot to incurage him to take a step forward , once hes done one step get of him, do this severel times just a couple of steps at a time, them you can start going in straight lines, dont sit on him untill he is happy about you leaning over and walking like this, ever time you get on him and he bolts with panic with you you are knocking him back, it takes time.

[cvb]

thinking about this in theory - cos I haven't had to do it in practise - then there are 2 things you need to get him happy with (1) the weight and (2) someone above him in the edge of his vision. (I gather he does his 'flight' even if you haven't sat up ?)

Some of the suggestions above will help with weight carrying worry. If he's stood still from the ground, does he know about moving over ? Cos it may also be worth starting with very simple movement ie only move bum over. Teach it from the ground then, using a safe 'corner' and a helper, lean on him (but not off your own feet) and ask him to take a step over with his bum. Gradually build up til your weight is all on him. Step by tiny step.

Then also you have to think that the rider is sitting where a predator would attack, so get him used to seeing things 'above' him. You'll need some helpers and some props, but try things like getting to walk under a piece of tarp/plastic - and gradually lower it so he really has to walk under it. Bung a plastic bag on the end on a stick (or use a carrot stick) and get him used to it slowly, building up to being able to move it in the air above/behind him,

And so on....

[Mehitabel]

Originally posted by cvb
thinking about this in theory - cos I haven't had to do it in practise - then there are 2 things you need to get him happy with (1) the weight and (2) someone above him in the edge of his vision. (I gather he does his 'flight' even if you haven't sat up ?)

Then also you have to think that the rider is sitting where a predator would attack, so get him used to seeing things 'above' him. You'll need some helpers and some props, but try things like getting to walk under a piece of tarp/plastic - and gradually lower it so he really has to walk under it. Bung a plastic bag on the end on a stick (or use a carrot stick) and get him used to it slowly, building up to being able to move it in the air above/behind him,

And so on....

you're quite right cvb, in that it's normally the seeing someone above them that worries them, more than the weight. an easier way of simulating this is to tie up on a fence and then sit on the fence or stand on the bottom rail, next to the horse so they can see you.
also do your grooming etc stood on a bucket at the shoulder, so you;re that bit higher.

[Lucy J]

he doesn't mind me sitting up, i can sit right up no problem and i can jump onto his back quite roughly to lean on him from the ground, its only when he is asked to move he goes into flight mode!

[shaka]

Are you squeezing with your legs? A lot of youngsters dont like this, as it feels like pressure to them, and a young horse will run away from pressure.

[Lucy J]

not at the leg stage yet (although that may have been what i did when he bolted). just someone trying to lead him.

[cvb]

for clarity - does he run off if you ask him to move when you're just leant over him ?

[Showjumper]

It sounds like you're rushing him a little. I'd start back at basics. Voice commands come first, while leading. Until he can obey voice commands on a long rope (and preferably at liberty), I wouldn't do anything else. Always master stage one before moving onto stage two, and so on.

When he's walking, trotting, halting and backing up off voice commands, I'd teach him to move away from "invisible" pressure. I.e. put the rope over the right side of his neck when you're standing on his left. Put gentle but consistant pressure on the rope until he turns away from you. Praise him a LOT when he does it.

Once he's happy with the concept of "invisible" pressure, you could introduce my version of long reining (I don't like lungeing). Instead of walking behing the horse, which can be very confusing for them, stand next to the shoulder, with two ropes. A short rope clipped to the side nearest you, and a long rope going over his neck and into your other hand. Start off with your hands quite high, above his withers for ease of steering. Ask for walk and halt, and steer with the ropes. It shouldn't be long before you can confidently expect him to back up, halt, walk, trot and steer with two reins.

Then I'd do all the same exercises all over again, but with a saddle on.

When you introduce a rider, he should be totally chilled about wearing a saddle, obeying voice commands and "invisible" pressure and respond without thinking. Therefore, carrying a rider won't be particularly exciting/scary and he will be prepared in such a way that he won't panick.