colour question, socks, blaze etc

[scooby doo]

I was wondering where the colour on legs and face comes from. I don't mean on Paints or anything, just normal chestnut and bays etc. Does the colour have to come from the parents or can it just happen? I have a bay mare pregnant to a chestnut stallion, neither have white anywhere, so is it possible to have a foal with white on it's legs or face?

thanks!

[virtuallyhorses]

There is quite a relationship between paints\pintos and 'normal' coloured horses with socks and blazes. For instance the 'normal' colouring in clydesdales which usually produces white socks and blazes - is what is known as minimal sabino spotting.

The trick is that in 'normal' horse's the colouring genes are kept to minimal patterns whereas the paint breeders actively encourage breeding where those same genes have let loose and splatted pattern all over the horse.

In answer to your other question - colour is determined by genes so it doesn't 'just happen' BUT genetics are quite complex and two horses with no white at all could still produce a foal with colour or spots or socks etc IF they have the genes themselves even though it doesn't show - recessive genes. You'd need to look at the grandparents and great grandparents - you even need to look closely at the parents - blotchy lips can be a sign that there is spotting there somewhere.

[Shiny McShine]

White markings are not a greatly understood phenomenen, but the following theories on markings present a loose guide to the heredity of white markings.

It is not clear as to what genes produce white markings or to what extent they are genetic as opposed to environmental influenes in the womb (suggested 68% genetic, the rest environmental). However, it appears that the sabino gene is responsible for white markings that include a chinspot or a speared stocking, while normal white genes control the prescence of all other kinds of white markings. It is then suggested that there is a gene with gives a total solid (no white) horse and that this is a dominant gene.

Following these theories, total solid bred to total solid should produce total solid 75% of the time, unless one of the parents is homozygous, in which case total solid would result 100% of the time. Therefore you have a 0-25% chance of producing a foal with markings, althought modifying genes may still restrict the presence of white markings, further reducing the odds.

So to recap... a solid horse will be carrying the 'no white' gene (N+N+ or N+Nn), so a solid horse bred to a solid horse will have a 0-25% chance of breeding a horse with white markings based on its genetics. Even horses with sabino genes will be solid as a result. So this is the chance in your scenario.

I won't go into the details of the outcomes of breeding a horse with markings to another horse because it is not relevant to your question and would take a god awful time to explain, but if need be I can attempt it.

I hope that isn't too confusing... it is a bit difficult to explain in more simple terms although I'm sure I could try if need be. My knowledge on the genetics of white markings is pretty thin so I could be (and most likely am) wrong. What I have written is based on the theories I have read about in 'Horse Colour Explained' by Jeanette Gower. ;)

[fiesty_filly]

I don't know much about the markings but what I have found quite interesting is that every foal I have ever seen by the stallion Gambit Z (the sire of my horse) has had the same diamond shaped star. I thought it was really quite interesting.

[Wally]

White makings on Haflingers are frowned upon. White marks on the face are okay for some reason, Socks and white feet are a no-no. Same with Fjords, 'cept white on the face too is a NO-No! Mind you Esse has a tiny, tiny star on her forehead. Just a few white hairs but this is considered a fault. It's not in her father's line nor in her mother's. It's just come from out of the blue. Personally I couldn't care less whether she has a white star. If she's a good horse she can have purple spots for all I care!

:D :D :D ;) ;)

[Baldrick]

White markings are not entirely genetically determined. Identical twins (which are genetically identical because they arise from an egg which has divided after fertilisation) can have different markings.