Tying Up

[Jay.o]

I dont know of this is better suited for the 'Training of the Horse' section, if it is, feel free to move it :)

Ok, I have had Mysy for about 10 months now. I have never had her tied up for grooming, tacking up or whatever. She has never been taught to be tied up either so can you see my problem??

I made a mini haynet and filled it today to give her something to do, to hopefully try and calm her a bit while being tied. I tied her up and instantly she went crazy at me. She was ttrying to take bite out of me. After about 5 minutes, she calmed down enough for me to brush her all over and put on her vest and rugs. She was incredibly unsettled and tried to swipe at me again when i was trying to un-tie her.

Is it just a routine I need to get going? Like she needs to be tied up for about 5 minutes everyday for a start and then gradually getting long and longer. I thought a haynet was a good idea to keep her occupied - is it or not???

Any help please....

[Tor&Warrior]

The others will probably have better ideas than me but she kinda needs to be taught to tie up again from scratch. When I first got Vin he'd never tied up and if you just tied him up he went mad. I started by just threading the rop through the string because it wouldn't come out easy but would if he really panicked and I'd give him a handful of feed or treat and stand with him for a few minutes and once he was quite untie him and every time he was fed I'd put his rope through the string. Gradually increasing the time the happie he was. After a week or two it just wasn't an issue any more any we never thought about it and he ties perfectly, so what your doing is right, hope this is a help.

[LisaS]

We teach our young ones by clipping a lunge line to the halter.

Thread the lunge line through the ring and hold in your hand, praising her if she stands still. As she gets more confident over the days then try and stand somewhere she can't see you whilst still holding the lunge line.

good luck:)

[tasha]

What you are doing sounds OK Jay.o. I would definately use the hayney so she associates being tied up with food. Once she's happy you can work on breaking her of the haynet!

My YO 'doesnt believe' in tying them up and just tacks up loose etc in the stable. The when she goes to shows she has to have a right crowd with her to hold the pony as he wont tie to the horsebox!

[galadriel]

Originally posted by LisaS
Thread the lunge line through the ring and hold in your hand, praising her if she stands still. As she gets more confident over the days then try and stand somewhere she can't see you whilst still holding the lunge line.

This is what I was going to suggest.

It's better to make the whole exercise one of calm. If you never set her up with something to fight, she won't fight. If you teach her slowly to stand while she's not firmly attached, then eventually she will be okay with tying. Break it to her gently.

Fighting being tied to something solid can cause damage to the neck, particularly with a younger horse (one who's still growing).

(By the way, I saw the title of this thread and thought you were talking about azoturia! [tying up] Thought, "oh, no!" But you meant literal *tying(...much better :))

[Jay.o]

Thanks for all your help.
Cheers Tor&Warrior, Ill carry one with what I am doing - sort of :D

Lisa - Ill try that today when i go up the yard. Hopefully it will work aye.

Tasha, Mysy is used to being groomed and tacked up in her box too, but, I know theres going to be a time when she 'needs' to be ties, this is why I want to start now!

Gal, when you say make her stand without being attatched to tightly, do you mean tighten up the rope if shes pulling back and loosen it as she calms down and stands. then praise her and give her a treat maybe??

LoL, I was hoping that no one would thing about 'tying up', the other one - i tohught about changing the title but then realised you cant.

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Jay.o
Gal, when you say make her stand without being attatched to tightly, do you mean tighten up the rope if shes pulling back and loosen it as she calms down and stands. then praise her and give her a treat maybe??

If she pulls her head away, let the line slip, then tighten the line to pull her head back to where you want it. She never has any reason to panic, to fight, to be unhappy about being "tied."

If you politely correct her each time she pulls away, she will eventually get used to holding her head where you have put it. At that time, there won't be any reason for her to fight being tied, because she'll hold her head where you ask her to. So when she stays put because you ask her, then it is her (or your) idea to stay there--not that she is "trapped" by the line on her head.

[Harry Hobbes]

Jay.o,

If you wish to train your horse to not "pull back" when tied, then one of the most effective (of many) methods is the following, adapted from John Lyons:

Objective: Teach the horse to "break over the HQ" rather than "pull back" against the tie point. That is, teach the horse that when it must move when tied, to move over with the hindquarters left or right. (I.e., "breakover" the HQ.)

Tools needed:
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A halter in good repair.
A long lead line of at least 40 feet attached to the halter - a lariat works really well for this. You need lots of line so that when the horse pulls back, you can pay out line and still have control of the horse's head.
A safe training area, such as an arena with stout fencing (or any stout and solid fence line made of wood). The horse must have open space behind it so that it can back away from the fence without encountering any obstructions; an arena (or round pen) works well, assuming stout fencing.
A flag or other "hazing" tool; something that sill cause the horse to move.
An assistant to hold onto the running part of the lead rope from the outside of the fence, and control the horse's head. (You and the horse both being on the inside of the fence.)
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General training method: Basically, you and your assistant put the horse in a position where it learns that when it gets stimulated to move, it learns that it can just step over (break over) with it hindquarters, and that it does not need to pull back. (Pulling back being an unwarranted expenditure of time and energy on its part.)

Your role as the trainer is to exercise the horse at the tie point to the extent that it seeks the comfort of just stepping over, as opposed to expending all the energy required to pull back.

You do this by asking your assistant to hold (not tie) the horse, and then you "haze" the horse's hindquarters over left, then right; repeating the exercise, until the horse has no backward motion, only lateral motion. The horse steps over left, then steps over right, never leaving the "hold point" (i.e., the simulated tie point); but, ceases from pulling back.

When the horse is practiced, it will not increase its distance from the hold point (tie point), and it will leave "float" (slack) in the lead rope when it steps over. It is yielding to the tie point.

Set Up:
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The horse will be stood facing the stout fence about three feet between the horse's nose and the fence.

The long lead rope (attached to the halter) is passed through the fence and around a stout post one turn only. This provides the ability to apply low levels of pressure if and when the horse pulls back, but will not tie the horse hard and fast.

The assistant, who is on the other side of the fence (outside the arena), has two jobs: 1) to manage the lead rope; the assistant will hold onto the running end of the long lead rope, and control the horses head by asserting 20-50 pounds of pressure on the rope if the horse pulls rope. (One turn of the lead rope around the post gives the assistant more than enough leverage.) The assistant then takes up slack when the horse comes forward to the fence. 2) To keep the horse's head facing the tie point. We do not want the horse to turn it's tail to the tie point, so as it moves, the assistant uses pressure on the lead rope to cause the horse to remain facing the tie point, even if the horse is backing away.

You stand off the horse's left or right hindquarter, outside of kicking range; your job will be to "haze" the horse's hindquarters first one direction (left/right), then the other.
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The specific training steps are:

1. When set up is complete, you pressure the horse by hazing its hindquarters to cause the horse to step over, stopping all pressure when the horse moves.

2. The horse will probably feel the resistance on its halter, and pull back some distance; let it. Remain quiet while it is moving over or back. (The horse will probably throw its head into the air, pulling back in a panic; let it; The assistant is there to keep its head facing the tie point as it goes back, and to pay out enough rope to allow the horse time and ground to overcome its panic.)

3. As the horse pulls back, the assistant pays out rope, applying 20-50 lbs. of pressure on the rope, instantly releasing all pressure when the horse stops pulling back.

4. When the horse ceases pulling back, let the horse settle, and positively reinforce (reward) the horse with your voice, because it is standing still, but do not approach it.

5. After it has settled, you move around behind the horse and calmly drive it forward toward the tie point with your hazing tool; the assistant takes up the slack as the horse approaches the tie point.

6. The horse will probably over travel beyond the tie point (in an attempt to go down the fence line); as it does, the assistant, applies pressure again, requiring the horse to turn its head back to the tie point. It may pull back again at this time, in which case you repeat the sequence, starting at step 3, above. If the horse just moves up to the tie point and stands calmly, then you repeat the procedure starting at step 1, above.

7. When the horse stops and stands calmly, up close to the tie point (about three feet), you move around over to the other side of the hindquarters (travelling in a wide arc to stay out of kicking range), and begin again from step 1, above. At this point you may be the party doing all of the major movement; the horse may merely be stepping over; first one direction, then as you come around and haze the other hindquarter, the other direction.

Safety is paramount, so if, at any time, the horse panics beyond the end of the long lead rope, then just let it go (you're in a safe training area); the horse will run off some distance and then stop and calm down. Go over and get the horse, don't make a fuss, bring it back, and re-start, just like nothing happened.

The Results:

The first or second pull back will be the most dramatic, wherein the horse goes back furthest; thereafter, as the horse loses its panic, the horse will start to move over left or right and get parallel to the fence, only going backward several feet as it gets parallel to the fence.

Soon, with additional practice, the horse will lose the backward motion as it step over left and right, breaking over its hindquarters, get itself parallel to the fence, and always facing the tie point.

It will also lose its fear/panic. In fact, it'll get bored. This is good; bored horses are not panicked horses. Thereafter, with additional practice, the horse will maintain the float in the lead rope and never move its nose further than three feet from the tie point, as it steps over and gets parallel to the fence.

You may find that the horse is less reactive to the flag (or whatever hazing tool), and you must work harder to get movement. This is good, as the horse is learning to not be fearful of your tool.

Preliminary results can be accomplished within one hour of this training. (And I would not continue a training session once the horse calmly and consistently steps over.) However, follow-up reinforcement should occur over subsequent training sessions, several days apart; these follow ups are typically very short sessions, as the horse only requires reinforcement.

Incidentally, when your horse is good with this exercise, you will have a horse that has learned to yield softly while tied. Think of the possibilities.

Close

There are many methods to train a horse not to pull back (and stand quietly); but, this method is just about the best that I've encountered because it is safe, no force is used, and is based upon solid training theory and practice.

It's also a lot of fun.

Best regards,
Harry

[FRED]

Good luck Jay .O
last Sunday I saw a young horse have a panic attack because she had been tied too short, fortunately people were close by and soon she calmed to 'steady' said real calm.
Its the 1st time I have seen something like that happen, good luck with your training.

[Evol_or_revert]

my only advice is what not to do, dont tye them to a post with a knot and expect them to stay as they just take the whole post with them, seen that happen a few times :S no horses were hurt only fences.