Rearing body language - what are the clues?

[mikka]

The four yo greenie my daughter rides looks, at least to my over protective (and uneducated) eye, as though he's courting the idea of rearing.

After about a half hour of good work - but lots of frustration - the horse starts to back up, ignores leg, throws his weight onto his quarters, and lifts his forehand in a kind of launching movement. But he doesn't go off into canter. He just keeps on with this launch pose: halt, backup, launch mode.

This happens again and again.

To me, it looks as though he's reckoning to rear. The instructor thinks he's too much on the forehand to even WANT to rear, and is just venting his annoyance at being trained. (But he's NOT on the forehand when he "launches".)

My question isn't one that addresses the root problem. I'd just like to know the clues for assessing whether or not a horse is about to rear.

Thanks.

[chev]

Those are pretty much the clues you'd get, if you got any - I've also ridden rearers that went up with no warning whatsoever.

The difficulty is what you describe is also very typical of a green youngster who's tired, a bit reluctant to work any longer and trying to evade. Plenty of horses will do this and never rear.

Presumably his teeth and tack are ok, and nothing's causing discomfort in his neck or back? If the instructor feels he's heavily on his forehand, it's more than likely that after half an hour of working he's simply had enough. Half an hour can be a long time for a youngster to concentrate and work on going in an outline with his quarters engaged.

If this horse did rear, it would, more than likely, be a small evading/complaining sort of rear, rather than the full-on circus style of the confirmed rearer.

[Cochise]

Hi mikka, those do sound like classic symptoms.
From the saddle, I do have a horse that decides if he does not want to go anywhere today thank you very much, he will drop behind any contact, start to strike out a little with his forelegs and bounce a little. Then the nose comes right in and up he goes!
He is so predictable though that I can just ride him forward positively and he is okay.
Hope all goes well with your daughers greenie!

[kedwards]

Yes, that sounds like the sort of resistence related to rearing (or preceding it in a horse that is so inclined). Although I wouldn't necessarily expect it to mean that the horse was about to rear, it certainly is a sign that he's confused or uncomfortable.

If this only happens after an hour of work, is it possible that he's just reached his limits in fitness or mental effort at that point?

[galadriel]

Duchess is very heavy on the forehand, with big shoulders and a low-set neck. I've seen her rear.
I think rearing is associated with a stifling of forward movement. Either the horse wants but is being prevented from moving forward, or the rider is urging forward and the horse feels he can't. My guess is in line with those above; the little guy is trying to say "enough, enough."

Stopping a ride after he does this is probably a bad idea, because it might teach him to use it as an evasion; staying on and making him work may be a little dangerous to the rider. Your [daughter's] best bet might be to keep a sharp eye out for signs of fatigue, and to stop *before* he starts protesting.

How is he otherwise? You said "good work, but lots of frustration." Is he hard to get going, or evasive? I wouldn't think a very green horse would be set to do much that could be that frustrating...

[Wally]

Yup, those sound like rearing threats. The secret....for some horsdews is to stop putting the forward "leg" on. Let him settle and go forward again when he feels he can. If you force a horse to go forward who us threatening to go up he will end up rearing.

[mikka]

Thanks to everyone for the good advice.

I think it's very possible that this horse has reached his saturation point when the backing business starts. He tends to be evasive at the best of times, but prolonged contact seems to be the triggering factor. They're working on collection (is this, itself, too much for a young, front-heavy horse?) and he'll tolerate it for about 15-20 minutes before he starts to object. It may very well be that he's wanting to move forward more freely and is feeling restricted by being pushed into contact from behind. Also, my daughter's most serious riding flaw is a tendency to brace her body against forward action which can result in an unyielding rein. She's thinking "up" too much and needs to achieve a more sensitive feel. She may well be the biggest part of the problem.

I'll suggest to her that she stop the work as soon as she feels him beginning to tense so they can end on a good note. I'll also tell her not to push him on if he starts any funny business and to let him calm himself first.

Again, thanks. Will let you know how they do.

[chev]

Hmm, I'm not sure I'd be working on collection with a green 4 year old that's heavy on the forehand anyway! It could even be that that in itself is causing the problem - he won't have developed the strength or co-ordination yet to be able to collect properly, and could even be backing off the contact because that's what he thinks he should do.

I'd be working on engaging his quarters to lighten the forehand, and getting him to move forward freely. Only when that is achieved should he be asked to start collecting as well.

Also try letting him really stretch after ten minutes of working - so that he works for a while, and is ten encouraged to stretch his head and neck out and down for a minute. Then he can be asked to work again for a short while, then stretch again. It helps prevent stiffness and fatigue while also teaching him to move forward and down into a contact instead of back and up when he's worked for a while.

Good luck - let us know how they get on!

[kelsey]

I am with chev.

According to the classic training scale, collection comes last ie

relaxation
rhythm
contact
impulsion
straightness
collection

Each step is built on the prior ones - a horse that has lost the first quality of relaxation cannot be asked to collect.

[mikka]

Thanks chev and Kelsey - I'm going to speak with the trainer about the purpose of pushing for collection at this point in the horse's training. I thought it was rather premature from watching how he goes generally, but, as usual, didn't feel I knew enough to comment....

This instructor is actually very good - as well as being open and sympathetic - but I also know she's grooming my daughter to compete on one of her own horses, so there might be an underlying desire to move the rider along at the expense of the horse.....which will, of course, be counterproductive in the long run.

Just a hunch. Could be way off, though.

Thanks for the great help.

(Cochise - hope Cheeky's eye is okay.)

[Wally]

I too would be reading the warning signs, if he's telling you he cannot do it by backing up and rearing then I'd get him going forward BIG TIME and forget the collection for a year or so.

I think it was Alois Podhaisky who said a trainer who ends up making his horse rear through pain, fear or frustration should be utterly ashamed of himself for allowing the poor horse to resort to a last desperate attempt to communicate by rearing. Or words to that effect.

[mikka]

Thanks, Wally. That's a very resounding quote/paraphrase and not one we'll take lightly.

Daughter just home from school and we've had a quick talk about her riding. I was surprised when she turned weepy. I hadn't realised just how upset she was by what she called "forcing" the horse (bad mother for being so blind! she wants too much to please). She admitted that she'd even become afraid to canter him because he's been exploding into it with uncontrolled, unstoppable energy. (This kid isn't afraid of much so that really got my attention.)

Clearly, this whole situation deserves a serious re-think. We've decided that we're going to forgo riding next lesson and, instead, sit down with the trainer to air concerns and hammer out a more realistic training plan for both horse and rider.

I'm SO glad I posted my concerns on here - god! NR is worth its weight in platinum!

Big hugs to all!

[galadriel]

Sounds like daughter has good instincts--and you, too.

You may not feel overly experienced ("as usual, didn't feel I knew enough to comment...."), but from observation, I would say that your guesses tend to be very good. Your concerns are valid. Though you may not feel you know enough to criticise, you can certainly stop something that you find worrisome, and ask for an explanation--and for a change if you think it might be dangerous.

My husband got into horses when I bought ours in April 2001; he has much the same sentiments you do about questioning, but like you he also has terrific instincts for things that might be a concern. I really like to hear his comments on what he sees, even if he's asking about what *I'm* doing. If nothing else, I can explain why I feel what's going on is all right, which makes him feel better. A lack of lifetime experience doesn't deny you the ability to look at a situation and ask, "Ahh....can you clarify this for me, because [X] worries me and [Y] looks dangerous."

Have some faith in your feelings :D