Tiny mouth, strong horse - what bit?

[Bebe]

Hi everyone

Bebe is still causing headaches bitting wise. For about a year I've had her in a happy mouth pelham (mullen) with elastic curb, which she seemed reasonably happy in but it never really had the relaxing of the jaw effect that other people have experienced. It also does nothing at all when Bebe decides she's going to head for the next county at warp speed. For schooling I had her in a baucher mullen mouth (rubber) which again, she seemed relatively happy in (much happier than in anything else I've tried) but 2 instructors thought she'd be happier in something else, only no-one knows what.

Over the last 2 years I've tried her in loads of different bits, french links, normal snaffles, hanging cheek, full cheek, myler, pelham, mullen mouths, etc. She doesn't seem overly keen in any of them.

There are 2 problems - first one is that her mouth is tiny. She has a thick, fleshy tongue and a very low palate. If her mouth is closed and I put my finger in there is no gap between her tongue and palate. Doesn't really leave much room for a bit! The second one is that whilst she's very well behaved 90% of the time she has got a very wilful streak and a tendency to refuse to slow down from gallop/canter if the mood takes her. She's worse in company but also does this on her own. To a degree I can hold her with my seat but once she ignores that, I need the reins and bit as backup. On top of that, she opens her mouth wide when my seat fails and I have to use the reins. She's had every physical check known to man (pretty much) and there's nothing wrong, I think it started in response to discomfort at some point but now it's a learnt evasion as she only does it when she's in a taking off mood.

I've got a waterford to try tonight as it's supposed to suit smaller mouthed horses. If that doesn't work, can anyone else think of other options?

Thanks
Amanda

[Alibi]

Have you though about not using a bit and go bitless?

I have a little TB with a tiny mouth and when i bought him he was in a great big snaffle and hated it. I started Parelli with him, because the brakes were a little unreliable! and now after 3 months we happily ride in a rope halter and can stop so easily after a gallop by just lifting the reins. You don't have to go down the NH route there are other bitless bridles available.

This may not be an option for you but its a thought! May be you could discuss it with your instructor.

[Bebe]

Hi

I did try her in a scawbrig for a while. It was fine in the school but out hacking she just got faster, and faster, even in walk! She seemed to dislike the pressure round her nose as she poked her nose up in the air and ended up going round a bit like a giraffe. I haven't tried another bitless bridle since, though I did consider trying the No Bit bridle a while ago but never got around to it.

Thanks
Amanda

[Maria]

My mare has similar mouth confirmation. The bit she's been happiest in is a narrow sweet iron loose ring snaffle with a copper lozenge in the middle. Unfortunately the bit needs replacing and I haven't been able to find one quite like it. So we're back in a stainless steel Stubben eggbutt french link.

I wonder whether a gag snaffle - used with two reins - might provide the back up you're looking for out hacking. You only need to use the gag rein in extremis. The guy from Kangaroo bits suggests tying a knot in the gag rein and only using it if required.

[Bebe]

Maria,

I've been looking at Shires website (www.barnstormers.co.uk) and they have a copper french link bradoon, narrow loose ring with the lozenge in the middle being copper and the rest is sweet iron. Would that work for you? I've been looking at their training bits as I think they might work for Bebe in the school but the bradoon might be slim enough to fit comfortably in her mouth as I'm sure the biggest issue is the thickness of the bit.

Their website is www.barnstormers.co.uk if you don't already have it.

I have been thinking about a gag but have held off as I've never used one before. Do you mean a pessoa (3 ring) or Dutch (4 ring) gag or the Cheltenham gag? I don't mind using two reins, used to hack out with two on the pelham when I also used it for schooling.

Thanks
Amanda

[Mehitabel]

do you remember me talking about petal's youngest, who i've recently backed? shehas a tiny mouth too, and i found that anything with a joint or a lozenge was uncomfortable, as like bebe, her tongue touches her palate. so when i had a jointed or lozenge bit in, every time i took a contact and the bit changed 'shape', it was banging her palate. the 'upright' ring of the joint or the topof the lozenge was touching the palate all the time, so it must have packed quite a wallop when i took a contact. i've got her in a nathe bendy straightbar, the one that is narrower in the middle. i don't know whether they do this mouthpiece in a pelham or 3-ring - since bebe needs a bit more brake power on occasion!

http://www.cotswoldsport.co.uk/Main-Shop/Waldhausen/nathe-bit.jpg is the one denim is in. i'd be anxious about the waterford as i can see all the balls touching the roof of her mouth and not being very comfy.

[Bebe]

Es,

Bebe is currently in a flexi mouth straight bar and she's happier in this than anything else I've tried. I can't tell from the picture how narrow the nathe bit is, is it much thinner than the happy mouth bits? I would worry about using the loose ring version for hacking, and I've had a quick look and the Bit Bank do have a gag version but it's £117!!!!! Nowhere else seems to have them.

I've always steered clear of french links, etc as she's objected pretty strongly but I think maybe a very thin bit with a lozenge instead of link might be okay for her. It seems to be worth trying as I'm running out of options! I'll try to borrow one rather than buy though.

Thanks
Amanda

[Mehitabel]

hers is pretty narrow, but it's short as well - 4 1/2 i think. the middle of it is about the circumference of my little finger, and the edges about the circumference of my thumb. remind me later in the week and i can take a tape measure to the yard next weekend if you like.

it's the narrowest bit i could find at the yard - we have a few happy mouths and they are fatter, but also bigger sizes.

£117! :eek: that's obscene.

[eml]

I have a 5" Nathe and the measurements are similar to those given by ES. I have one pony with a tiny mouth who proved very difficult to bit and we resolved that with a 'magic bit'. It is a thin straight bar with a raised port to accomodate the tongue but I fear would not provide the brakes you require!

[Mehitabel]

i did think about that for little denim, but wouldn't the port bang the roof of the mouth? i also thought it might be a bit narrow for this stage in her training - walking and trotting in a straight line out, and just learning about 20m circles in the school.

[Esther.D]

I tried a magic bit for Bobby - he has a 3.5" mouth so is a nightmare to bit - but he hated it, I thought it might be the port as he too has a tiny mouth in all respects. So we have gone back to a straight nylon bradoon which he adores:)

[shakari]

similar horse-similar mouth- mines been through everything possible going-the only thing he likes is the thickest version of the myler comfort snaffle (you can get it in a harsher version with rings to make it more of a gag) it looks like an eggbutt with a barrel in the middle but it doesn't bend however each part spins independantly. Very pricey but you can get much cheaper copies.

[Bebe]

Forgot to mention that I have tried her in Myler, the wide barrel comfort snaffle with hooks. She hated it, I lost all steering (even from the legs) and she ran around with her head in the air! It was a bit scary to be honest so I've not tried any of the others since.

[Yann]

If I'm not mistaken Rideaway have a nathe straight bar dutch gag in their catalogue if that's what you were after, I'm sure it's not £117 either!

Rio's french link happy mouth has a lozenge / roller in the middle, you're welcome to have a look at it if you want:)

[Bebe]

Amanda toddles off to look at rideaway......

I can only see the Flexi one, which is jointed, happy mouth has a straight bar but not sure if that will be any different if its the mouthpiece that is too thick. I'll look in the new catalogue tonight and see if there's anything that is in there that isn't on the website.

I wouldn't mind borrowing Rio's HM french link if you don't mind Yann. Even if it's a no go it might give me an idea of whether the lozenge centre is the way to go or not.

[Yann]

Only going from memory there, so might not be the case. No probs re the FL;)

[Bebe]

I'll still have a look in the new catalogue, there's loads more in there than can possibly be on the website yet.

I'll come and find you re:borrowing the happy mouth :)

[MelanieD]

Derby house have some nathe bits, not sure which ones exactly as I was just looking for a snaffle, but the one I looked at was cheaper than the same one at bitbank so might be worth a look.

[Horseyheaven]

my only coment is the word..EBAY!!!!!!1:D

[Bebe]

Well, I tried a waterford last night (thought she might like how it moulds to the shape of the mouth) but it must have been too thick as she hated it and I took it off within 5 mins of getting in the school. Swopped it for Yanns happy mouth french link which she is much, much happier in. I was only working her in hand but she was quieter in her mouth and even offered some flexion and softened her jaw to it, which is a first. Normally it takes about 25 mins of riding to get her to offer that and by that time we're both fed up but she offered it pretty much straightaway in this.

So, it's a definite contender. Yann's letting me hang onto it for another couple of days so I can ride her in the school and out hacking in it (hacking will be with a flash as a safety precaution) and if she still seems to like it after that I'll pop out and buy one. I think if I buy one I'll get the baucher version rather than a loose ring, simply because she does like bits that are held a bit more stable in her mouth, which the baucher helps do.