Feel like I'm going backwards

[DITZ]

Taking everyones advice on board about my recent jumping and bit problems I hired an indoor arena out tonight with the express desire to work on a) my canter and b) my turns. I was fortunate that the person in before me had set up a course of jumps so I took all the poles down so they were all lying on the ground.

We spent what seemed like an eternity going round the outside of the school in canter but he was not at all relaxed and frankly he was verging on being unstoppable (french link/flash no martingale). Its an indoor school but the speed was quite literally making my eyes water - now that aint right surely??!!

Anyway, we moved onto doing 20m circles in canter which was little better. At certain points (always the same point) he got unbalanced and faster then softened again then out of control then soften etc etc. We did this for about 15 mins with little progress. He just ignored all seat aids, weight aids, all of them.

Moved onto trying to get him round the course (just ground poles remember!). Jeez! He was jumping those like they were 2ft. Again completely ignoring me. There was no way I could do more than 2 or 3 in a row cos we were now going on some sort of death gallop.

Decided to go back to basics and get him to walk over them which I managed in the end (now 45 minutes into session) and just got him to trot round when I had to go.

So what am I doing wrong here then? I have understood everyones opinion of him rushing because I am holding him back and he is therefore lacking implulsion - but poles laid on the floor? Surely not! How much impulsion does a horse need??!!

Frikkin horses.

[Yann]

My he sounds fit!:eek:

Perhaps the rushing is from excitement after all? Do you think he would have been as 'hot' in the pelham?

[abi_pring]

My little pony is EXACTLY the same. If anyone knows of any tips to make him and ditzs horse slow down, I'd be grateful!!! Whether or not Smokey is fit, he's always like it. He is 24 in June too!! :o Lol

[nutkin]

I have a similar problem with my TB mare too. She thoroughly enjoys jumping and can get very strong plungeing if you hold her back. I usually start off in trot and just trot over the poles until i know that she is getting bored. I also use lots of change of direction and sometimes change direction between poles so as she has to think what i am going to ask her to do. I am not the most confident rider when it comes to jumping so i wont let her even attempt anything more than a pole until i know that she is settled. When she rushes and pulls towards a jump i go past again and again until she doesn't pull me towards the jump and then i will go over it.

[Proud_Mamma]

I am new to this board, but it sounds like maybe you guys need to gey your horses relaxed and listening to you again. Question, when your horse is running around fast, is his head way up in the air? Can you control him? If his head is way up in the air, I would teach him to drop his head to the ground on cue. Horses, can't be excited when their noses are 6 inches from the ground, they just can't be! To gain control of the horse, I would take time and train him to disingage his hips. Horse can't propel himself forward if his hips are swinging around him. Teaching these cues will put you back in control and get your horse listening to you, then you can continue on with your jumping or normal routine. Hope some of this makes sense or help you!

[DITZ]

I normally jump him in a pelham as the french link does nothing for us - we go too fast, he leans he jget under the jump, I cant turn to the next jump quick enough and it all goes horribly wrong. So I jump him in the pelham but I have been having lessons from a top class national instructor who tells me that I am using the pelham too harshly and people on this board tell me that I will in time cause the same problems using a pelham.

The thing is I just cant control him in his snaffle. I did go out today with the intent on buying a mullen mouth snaffle as I thin he responds well to the inflexibility of the mullen mouth but I couldnt find one anywhere.

[DITZ]

nutkin - thats a good strategy and it does work - eventually! I resorted to it tonight, just circling until he was calm then tahking the 'pole'. Lets remember though its just a pole!

Proudmamma - wheh he's running around no I cant control him, I can barely get him to listen to me. His head isnt in any fixed position, sometimes its up sometimes its not. He just absolutely ignores any seat aid you give and ultimately ignores any rein aid. I start nicely (just closing the fingers) but eventually find myself adopting all sorts of wring positions just to get control back.

[nutkin]

I hear what you are saying. I havent had my mare too long (2months) so i am hoping that eventually she will learn to calm down a little. It is hard not to do the death grip when a horse is out of control isn't it. I have arranged to have some lessons at a friends riding school to work on my riding as i havent had a lesson in over a year now. Problem is though it will be on another horse so unless the horse has the same overenthusiasm it will not help me to solve her way of going. Mind you i accept that my mare knows her job and things have improved now i am more relaxed to let her jump without any interference from me.

[galadriel]

Originally posted by DITZ
I did go out today with the intent on buying a mullen mouth snaffle as I thin he responds well to the inflexibility of the mullen mouth but I couldnt find one anywhere.

You can take the curb chain and reins off the pelham :) You'll still have about the equivalent of a baucher (due to the connection at the cheekpieces), but it will be a mullen bit.

[abi_pring]

Thanks for your tips.
Smokey goes around with his head in a normal position and i can do whatever I want with him. The only thing I can't do when jumping is slow him down! I'm planning to do lots of trot work this year with poles and eventually jumps. He'll soon know when I want him to trot and when I don't!

[Bebe]

It does sound like you need to go back to square one and if he's not relaxed in the canter at all, then I wouldn't try to jump him or even walk him over poles if he's going to be daft.

Is he like that in canter with no jumps around? If he isn't then I'd work on canter without any jumps present, then introduce one and just work around it and don't even approach it until he's settled. Once he's okay with one, add another one, etc until he realises jumps don't necessarily mean jumping and also that he only gets to jump when he's calm.

What happens if you sit up, suck it up and put your leg? Sometimes when they're running around like nutters it's a case of having to get the engine engaged before you can get control back anyway. Hard to do when they're already speeding around and doing the wall of death trick but it does help usually.

I suspect that the problems you're having with the pelham will still be there in a mullen mouth. I say this because up until recently I've been hacking Bebe in a pelham and schooling her in a baucher mullen mouth (and nope, you won't find one anywhere - I had to get my OH to hacksaw the bottom rings off a pelham) and the same problems arose in each. But, it would be worth trying if you think he does like the mullen mouthpiece. If you just want a normal mullen mouth, I have a full cheek one you could have for a few quid, or if the french link trials continue to go well you could have my baucher version. Another bit he might like if he has enough room in his mouth is a waterford. Lots of people hate them but for horses that get a bit strong they're good without being mega harsh and if you put pressure on both reins it essentially becomes a mullen mouth.

[Tootsie4U]

Feel Like Im going Backwards
Just wanted to say Im right there with ya :( Me too.

There's always an ebb and flow with horses. Just part of the journey. Or, at least thats what Im telling myself these days whenever I walk into the barn.

[eml]

Just slightly OT but I bought a vulcanite mullen mouth hanging cheek snaffle from the Bit Bank in Grimston nr Melton Mowbury for our mare which we jump in a pelham because we wanted to do some dressage, and yes we started the trial by taking off the pelham chain and using joined reins and the effect was similar to the new bit.

Ditz on this problem you say you spent an eternity going round the school in canter....perhaps this partially wound him up. With our more enthusiastic jumpers we do very little warm up in canter and none going large round the school. In a schooling session like this we would warm up in trot around and over the jumps then progress to cantering cirles around and then over individual poles before attempting to tackle tracks etc.

Anyway don't be depondent you have come along way on the search...remember gettting closer is the goal not perfection (Thats for those of us who think too much:D )

[DITZ]

eml - you could be right I could have wound him up! I'm just getting frustrated I think. So for next time then could you tell me how I would go about a schooling plan for this scenario. My objective was to canter tracks around the school (without jumps) to practice turns and approaches and also just getting him used to being in a school with lots of jumps.

[berties-girl]

Ditz, is he working from behind through all of this or just on his his shoulders? Also is is head at a respectable leval or is he trying to take all the control from you?

I have a similar problem, Bertie just tanks, some one told me that a Cheltenham Gag can sometimes bring them together for jumping due to the pole action.

I have also started doing a lot of gridwork i.e. bounce work starting with a pole on the ground then a bit higher jump and so on, we are doing this on the lung at the moment due to the first time he tried it he took off and i didnt think he would land til after the 3rd bounce jump !!!!! he has now got the hang of it and seems to be consentrating a lot more with more to nagotiate he is jumping 6 bounce fences now and he has no choice but to slow down or he ends up in a heap in the middle.

[eml]

Tried to PM you some ideas but your box is full!

[DavidH]

The problems you are having are not so unusual.
I had exactly the same problem with a pupil that came to me.
We cured the problem in a couple of months and the way we did it was along the lines of what you were doing towards the end of your session. What I would do is, and this will require you to hire a school regularly.
Set up a line of fences (poles on the ground) with 2 jumping strides between each fence.
Warm the horse up in walk only doing lots of walk halt transitions.
When he is listening to you turn him in to the line of fences from as far back as you can.
Halt several times before you get to the first fence and then halt in between each fence. Use as little contact as you can to make the transitions and stay very relaxed. After a few times through he will start to expect the transition and will be waiting for it.
Once you can halt instantly on command anywhere in the grid approach in trot but transition to walk before the grid and continue with the walk / halt through it.
Once this has become relaxed trot over the first pole then halt before the second then walk the rest.
Once this has become relaxed you can dispense with the walk and just do trot halt transitions. Remember to vary where the transitions are, you are trying to get the horse to listen to you not learn a routine.
By now you should be able to halt when ever you want with the horse relaxed.
Move on to canter and repeat the whole sequence again ie canter approach transition to trot befor the first fence walk the grid. Once you can canter approach then trot the grid calmly put up a (very) small cross pole on the last fence.
Canter approach trot before first fence, walk second trot third and jump fence from trot.
Now comes the real test. Put first fence up as small cross pole.
Trot approach and jump fence, walk second pole and halt between poles 2 and 3, trot pole 3 and jump 4th from trot.
Continue this varying approach gait and transitions so that the horse never knows what to expect but will expect something so should be listening to you.
Ultimately you will be able to have all fences up and do several transitions on the approach.
When this has been accomplished set up a small course and jump it doing transitions between all the fences.
If at any time the horse starts to rush again, go back 2 stages until he is listening to you and only you.
This will take some time but it will solve your problem permenantly and you will have a much better jumping horse.
Don't worry about stopping your horse in front of a fence. he is not going to learn to refuse as a result. What he will learn is that he is not necessarily going to jump the fence from the gait he is currently in an will be waiting for your cues. Which is what you want.
Don't expect miracles at first. You may not get out of walk the first couple of sessions but you will be changing your horses expectation.
If any of this doesn't make sense to you, please ask for clarification. Its much easier for me to do in a lesson than explain
Question - do you have your own transport?

David H

[DITZ]

Sounds familiar David in fact look what I've just cut and pasted that from a post of mine from last June!!!!

"Progress!!!
Feel chuffed as made an inch of progress today. Have put him back in his french link and martingale (with neck strap for me to hang on to to ensure I'm not grabbing him by mistake).

I decided to try the '2 steps back in order to get 1 step forward' approach and set up one small cross pole in the field and made quite a long approach just at walk. He started off with the usual high jinks as he was turned into it but after a short time he was walking upto it before breaking into canter about 12 feet away and jumping over and then eventually he gave up and only just broke into trot over it. Hurrah!!! "

As we ended the summer last year I had got him to a point where he would take a single x pole at canter without rushing. Maybe its just because I havent schoold for so long? He's an older horse who I am trying to teach new tricks! I usually have weekly lessons on him but facilities have prevented it thru the winter but they start again tomorrow (although tomorrows is a jumping clinic with 3 other people of my standard - I envisage something similar to horse pinball if they're all as poor as me!).

I sometimes think its a bit of a fruitless task and that I would maybe be better off selling him on and buying myself something more suitable (that someone else has had the pain with!) but I'm motivated by the possibility of achieving something.;)and I would feel bad as I didnt buy him to jump so it would be unfair to let him go for that reason when its not his fault.

Given that he wouldnt have behaved this way in his pelham would you advise I go back to that and just concentrate of riding him forwards more or persevere with the french link? Am going to try what gal said too about using the pelham as a snaffle.

eml - sorry have emptied it now.

berties girl - head carriage not too high just pokes nose out and goes thru bit. On a 20m circle we can change from working from behind reasonably collected, relaxed with good headcarriage to then going long and flat with head pulling on bit...then back again.

Yann - no he wouldnt have done it in the pelham!

[DITZ]

btw, yes I have transport. Hiring of school not a problem but I think I'm lacking direction a bit or allowing myself to get sidetracked from my intentions.