Retraining Difficulties

[SailleCinza]

I'm having a particular difficulty with a horse I've been helping to retrain. His name is Cajun, and he was a very successful hunter on the west coast - but now he's being trained in dressage.

Hunter and dressage seem to be opposites in many areas. While dressage movements must be in a precise area of the arena, hunters are allowed to drift all over the place. Hunters also move on their forehand, with their heads near the ground - quite the opposite of the "uphill" frame that a dressage horse needs.

My problem isn't the drifting - or the head for that matter, it's the speed. While he goes onto the bit nicely, he doesn't follow through with his hind legs. He lags - as he has been taught to do. I can get him to move forward when there's little contact, but he falls behind when we're in full contact. It's nearly impossible to get him into the gliding, bold stride he needs while he's on the bit. In fact, it's nearly impossible to get him to move faster than molasses.

Kicking doesn't work, neither does flashing the whip around - even though he supposedly was on the QH racing circuit. I even used the whip a few times, which I am pretty strongly against - I see the whip as a punishment or an aid, not something to smack a horse forward when he's confused.

If I let him "slowly learn it" he won't. He's moved slowly and been rewarded for it all his life. And everything else is going so well - I even taught him to leg yield! But he won't be in true collection until he engages his hind legs and moves forward.... and that's just not happening.

[IrisSilverMoon]

*ugh* getting some quarterhorses working how they are supposed to work can be such a pain! I definately think you have your work cut out for you!

have you tried a lot of halting and backing? trot halt back trot. doing this a few times should get your horse off his front end and having to give a big push from behind to go right into a trot. Make sure its an active trot too, nothing poky.

I try to see the whip definately as a tool, personally. Sometimes a horse may not even realise he's lagging somewhere and just a tap to that leg or whatever can let them know they've forgotten their rear! its hard to have your legs everywhere, especially in a horse that doesn't know dressage very well.

in any case, it is definately possible to do the exercise i mentioned without a whip, but for it to work the horse really has to be responding to your aids almost instantly, plugging along and being slow to respond won't help.

[horselady]

Do some uphill riding, this makes the horse bring his legs under him, while at the same time still your seat with a light leg pressure and good contact. Praise him each time he goes uphill for you. He should get the message. Go up and down several times on the incline then do this on the flat, with your seat deep and still. I find this works, good luck.:)

[SailleCinza]

Thanks you guys, backing up and uphill riding are great ideas for getting him off his forehand, I'll be sure to use them. Insilver, I regret that I resorted to the whip out of desperation because he competely ignores my legs. It's not his fault, either - he thinks he's being good. :(


Uphill riding brings to mind an idea about getting him to speed up by letting him go all out on hacks and rewarding him for it - horses seem happier to speed up when outside.

Hmmm.... more later.

[kedwards]

Hacking out is a great idea, as are hills. Another good exercise is to use trot rails to get him rounding his back and really picking up his legs.

I wonder what sort of hunters he showed if he's so behind the leg. Is that a AQHA thing?

In any case, it sounds like he is very behind the leg. I'd focus on that and getting him moving forward before I'd worry about getting him on the bit. Adding too much contact, when he isn't forward off your leg, will only further confuse him and shorten his stride.

Personally, I don't think it's inappropriate to use the whip to follow up an ignored leg aid, so long as you are giving him plenty of rein so that he isn't punished when he moves forward from it. Used that way, it's a means of clarification, not a punishment.

[IrisSilverMoon]

I"m gonna guess American Hunters...Maybe even specifically west coast?

I know every hunter show i've ever seen in the past few years has the horses moving as slowly as possible on the forehand. Its like western under english tack. I don't know how that became popular, because that's definately not the mark of a good hunter anywhere else.