Carrot sticks and one-sidedness - help!

[chev]

I've been doing bits of Parelli with Gelfy while the others have their feeds and he's coming on pretty well. But now we've got a problem.

He'll move sideways, backwards and forwards happily on hand signals and using the carrot stick (aka as schooling whip with string on the end ;) ) on the side he can see, and is actually suppling up nicely. He won't do it on his offside though. He can't see the stick, or my hand, so nothing happens. He's not got the hang of voice commands at all.

Also having problems with stiffness on that side - because he's trying to watch me when we're working (which is great, he's finally listening to me) he's getting very one-sided and quite stiff on the side that can't see. In effect he's placing himself where he can see me all the time.

I'm trying to work using my voice more, but in a (very) windy field with a pony that hasn't really got the hang of voice yet it's tough. I'm doing lots of stretching on his stiff side but I'd really like some suggestions on how to even things up a little. Any ideas on how to work him off the blind side?

When we do eventually move on to ridden work again it'll be a bit easier - he works fairly evenly then - but it's a problem on the ground. How do I get him to watch me without turning his good side to me all the time?!

[Esther.D]

Haven't got an answer I'm afraid, its a tough one:( Just wanted to say good luck and I hope you find one...good to know that other than the one-sidedness things are going ok:) I don't have one-sidedness obviously I just have an umbilically attached pony:rolleyes: When Stephen tried to do some Parelli with him (I am slightly dispraxic and found the wiggling the rope and tapping the carrot stick on the floor at the same time virtually impossible so Stephen took over the yo-yo game) Rupert came and hid behind me with his head over my shoulder..away from the nasty man:rolleyes: He really is going to have to learn to stand on his own two hooves one of these days:o

Good Luck with Gelfy

[azadik]

how about tying something rustley like a carrier bag to the end of your stick so he can hear it when working on his blind side?
he might get used to listening for 3 phases of noise before the phase 4 touch.
might be worth a try, helen.

[chev]

Sorry Esther, that made me laugh! Poor Rupert! :D Have to admit the tap/wiggle thing gets me too; if I'm not careful I wiggle the stick and 'tap' the rope.

azadik - that might work. Hadn't thought of noise. I've tried using touch for all phases but it doesn't work for two reasons - one is that unless he knows it's there, the touch makes him jump (bit counter productive when you're aiming for a calm pony :rolleyes: ) but it also confused him, having two different versions of phases 1 - 3 on two different sides, and on his good side we rarely go beyond phase two at all. I could use noise on both sides - if he'll make the connection on his good side, he'd make sense of it on the blind side too I'd have thought. Thankyou! :)

[Tootsie4U]

Ah, you're doing it again :D

Dont use his blindness as a crutch. Its a rough spot - not a reason. Just be more obvious on that side.

[chev]

:D Tootsie! Don't think I am this time though. He's working really well and once he can see the signals on the bad side he works well that side too - the problem is that he's trying to see signals on a side with no sight, hence the stiffness.

It's not a problem related only to working - if you look at his front hooves, the offside hoof is actually mis-shapen because he crosses that leg in front of the other to see where he's putting his foot. He wears the outside of the hoof wall far quicker than the inside. So to try and see what I'm asking him to do, he's doing the same - head on one side, bending the wrong way - so movements that are supple and fluid on his nearside are stiff and unatural on his offside.

So! Just been down to feed the others armed with the weirdest looking carrot stick - poor old Parelli would probably have a fit if he saw it! :o After some experimentation I now have a schooling whip with a piece of blue string tied to the end, and a Tesco carrier bag taped to it with some gravel in! He's got used to the thing on his near side now and although he's still trying to see what I'm doing, he is listening out for the rattle on the offside. Progress! :D

Problem too though. Can't find a way to stop the bag rattling when I don't want it too, which is confusing the poor animal a bit. Adding stones did help but the wind is still causing it to give signals I don't mean!

Any more ideas?! :D

[Tootsie4U]

what you did right there was make your requests more obvious. Bingo!

Im thinking crinkly paper... like celefane wrap maybe... (lordy, I dont know if I spelled that right).

[Esther.D]

Result! I vaguely remember you mentioned that you tried clicker training with him? Do you still have the clicker? How about having the clicker in your hand with the carrot stick (if you can manage all that in one hand!) and click everytime you use the stick. That is fiddly but it would be more controllable. Might work, might be too much faff..I'll have a think;)

[chev]

Yes, we did try clicker training... not good! After spending ages persuading him he wasn't being shot at and didn't need to run I then had to spend ages re-teaching him that he shouldn't mug me for food every time he heard a clicky noise :rolleyes: .

If I can manage both in one hand (thinking now of ways to tape it to my stick!) it might work. The bag was useful in that where he's a bit reluctant to move I can use it to 'direct' him a bit - the clicker wouldn't be as versatile in that respect. But it would at least only signal as and when I wanted it to! Having big ideas now about developing a system of clicks to go with various stick positions - like two clicks for one movement, one for another and so on. If I set it up on the side he can see would he be able to learn something like that? He's not as dim as he likes to pretend.

Cellophane would probably have the same problems as plastic bags - it might not inflate like my bag was but it wouldn't have the advantage of being weighted either. I'll experiment with different noisy things.

Someone else suggested tying a small bell to the end of my lash/string so I'll give that a go too.

(Then I'm going to film the Amazing Carrot/Bell/Rattly Plastic Stick and send Mr Parelli a copy - maybe he'd like to buy the patent off me?!! :D )

[azadik]

how about a cloth bag with gravel/beads or something in it. then there shouldn't be so much superflous (sp) noise.
it sounds like you're on the right track now though, just a case of finding the right combination of things.
also you may need to bite the bullet and buy a proper carrot stick.
i begrudged paying though the nose initially for a length of fibre glass rod, but it does make a difference in controllability. especially if you're adding weight to the end.
keep us posted on your progress.
helen.

[Kate F.]

Hi Chev!

I do sympathise - one of my horses is one-eyed too - in fact the one I first learned natural horsemanship with!

You can even the sides up - you just need to be a bit more tactile to get things going on the blind side - give him more "feel". Use a voice commands if you want to end up hands off (much easier than rustling bags - you can decide yourself when to use the voice - as you say, bags etc. are hard to control.) As with the sighted side, your first cue to the horse is the idea of the direction and the energy. No he can't see it - but he can sort of feel it. Then your voice command, then a touch signal.

Let's say you want to send him forwards. Look forward yourself (whole body, not just eyes!) and bring up your energy as to walk forwards yourself. As you do this, introduce the voice command. If he doesn't react - tap him on the rump - just above the tail with the end of your rope - or your carrot stick - whichever you find easier - til he moves forward. Immediately he moves, stop tapping. Repeat several times, and keep watching for him trying to move off sooner, and then stop your signal sequence sooner. Before long he'll be moving off your voice command - and if you stick at it, he'll start moving off the body language and energy too even before the voice!

In general, work a lot on the blind side making him comfortable with you on that side, and moving off light touch signals. You can do this in the stable to start with where you don't have the distractions of windy days etc.

A good exercise to get him softer and less stiff on that side is gentle drawing of the head round to that side, while he's in halt. To start with, stand at shoulder level on the blind side, and just draw the lead rope to the side, and wait for a slight softening and release. The try again until he starts giving softly to that pressure, and you can draw his head right round. He's then softened his neck. When he's really comfortable with his head turned round, keep him bent round and nudge his side about where your lower leg would be if you were in the saddle, and ask his hindquarters to move away, making sure he crosses the inside hind leg up and under - i.e. in front of the outside hind. Now he'd getting soft along his side. (Obviously, do this on his sighted side too!) When all this is going well on the ground, try it from the saddle. I think this will help the stiffness and you'll start noticing some improvements quite quickly.

At each stage, take the time it takes, and wait for him to be ready to relax and give to the pressure. Don't pull on him - just keep making the suggestion until he goes with it.

If all this sounds confusimg, it might be easier if you see it - there are photos of how all this works on my website at http://www.harmony-project.net/skin.asp?user=katefarmer&tab=weblogs&fid=0&nextdate=9%2F4%2F2003+7%3A24%3A51+AM&direction=n&bflag=#july03
btw - the horse demonstrating the ridden version is the half blind one!

Be patient - but stick at it! The blind side will take longer - but you can get there! I use my half-blind mare for natural horsemanship displays - and while I know she doesn't respond quite quickly and softly on the blind side as on the sighted side - the audience never seem to notice, and there are usually gasps when they're told at the end that she's blind in one eye! :-))

Good luck, and I hope this helps!