Honeymoon over- Napping again! Advice?

[HairyCob]

Hi all,

HC has well and truly settled into his new home...... I can tell cause the mild mannered pleasurable ride I had a couple of weeks ago has reverted to the bad tempered Nap-monster I had a couple of months ago at my old yard!

He hasn't (thank god) re-commenced the 'lets canter home NOW' stuff, but has started the classic 'turn for home if I can get away with it' and 'stop dead and refuse to move' napping behaviour when he is ridden out on a hack alone.

Currently I am sitting out the 'stop dead' phase- he gets bored before I do so we go forward!

With regard to his favourite 'turn for home' trick, which is happening every time I ride out alone now, I have just been turning him in circles when he tries it, and continuing to do so until he goes in the direction I am asking for!
He is very strong, and if he decides to turn one way, I have a hard job turning him against his chosen direction- usually he spins round to the left, and it's very unusual that I am able to pull his head back round to the right to stop him doing this- hence the circles!

I have noticed however that he will continue to spin to the left and let me steer him in circles until I do manage to turn him against himself, and then he stops napping.

I am determined to overcome this problem in a calm and quiet manner, and therefore don't ever take him out on a hack unless I KNOW I have at least two hours- an hour to get him to go in the direction I want to go and an hour for a hack!! At other times he is ridden in the school or round the fields on the farm (where he doesn't nap, presumably because he is still able to see/ hear his mates!).

Has anyone got any advice- is what I'm doing right, wrong, OK but could be improved upon?!

All comments, as ever, gratefully received!

[TNT]

It sounds like you're doing the right thing. Isn't it a pain? Allowing yourself lots of time is good. My trainer told me to let my horse turn in the direction she wanted but then just keep making her turn and work then try for the direction you want and if she turns the wrong way again just make her turn that way again and again . Make the direction they want hard and the direction you want easy. When you return to the yard after your hack include a work session there so home isn't such a vacation. You can even head home and then make them go past it for aways. I've also come home worked her and then unbridled her and put the halter and lead on tied her with the saddle still on and went about doing a few chores while she stood there looking at me like " hey haven't you forgotten something?" just to make home not the end of it. Good luck :)

[horsefreak]

Sounds to me like you are doing the right thing too - all I can suggest now is a string leg, a tap with a schooling whip and a mind saying "YOU ARE GOING FORWARD AND YOU ARE GOING FORWARD NOW" - Obv not out loud, but he will understand :)

Ax ~ Emx

[HairyCob]

Thanks guys, it's good to get some feedback that I'm on the right lines!

Today saw an improvement, we only did three circles on the way out of the farm and then had a lovely hack with no problems at all!:D

Hadn't thought of making him work some more when he gets back home- excellent idea- will have him in the school for ten minutes after his ride sometimes from now on!!;)

[Yann]

It sounds very much like a confidence thing, Rio is not a natural leader and will always prefer to follow another horse rather than go in front, so hacking out alone doesn't come naturally to her.

I get napping in the form of stops heading off our yard and down the first field sometimes, especially if we have to pass the yard owner's horses. Sometimes patience and asking nicely is enough to get her going, sometimes a tap with the whip, but occasionally she plants her feet and that's it. I don't get into a battle but get off and lead her past the sticky spot and remount, it's usually enough. Once we're clear of the farm she's normally fine, apart from a couple of junctions in the paths where she could head for home and will sometimes express a preferance. It does depend on her mood though, most days she strolls along without a care in the world:)

Do you carry a stick? Just having one can make all the difference. I've sometimes broken off a twig and waved it with miraculous results. The other thing if you're still bitless is that you don't have such good control of the head position, he may be aware of that and trying his luck. As suggested keep him looking the want you want to go and praise to high heaven every time he makes a right move. Sometimes turning to one side and then back again can get them moving, a version of unbalancing a stuck horse on the ground.

Other things you could do include treating him every time you get past the sticky area (not in the same spot every time necessarily) and maybe dismounting and letting him eat grass at some convenient point on the hack.

I'm sure things will improve as he gets used to the new place, hope you're enjoying it:)

[LindaAd]

Not sure if this is a recommended technique, but I found with Ginny that a "blocking" rein, used against the neck, helped to stop her spinning round.

Also hitting her on the neck, lots of swift small taps on both sides, or just waving the stick above her neck. This is defiinitely not recommended, but it worked....

[DITZ]

I was always taught never to let a horse circle in the direction they want to go, ie if he turns to the left although it may be easier to continue the turn and face him forwards again you must turn him back the way he came (hope that makes sense). Personally I am not against using a crop but if you dont like to use it simply lifting it up forwards so that it is near his face should make him think twice about going in that direction. If you're not sure of what I mean think about how a jockey uses his whip - they wave it past the face 3 times to every time they use it on the horse.

At the end of the day though simple perseverance is all that will overcome this one.:D

[Lovecat]

I think this one very much depends on the horse but this was recommended to me by my YO and although it sounds daft, I've used it on both the incredibly nappy part tb I used to share and on Murph to great effect...

If he refuses to budge, take a deep breath, heave a huge sigh as if you're really bored with him, relax your grip on the reins (I find I tend to unconsciously tighten up when faced with napping), squeeze lightly with the legs and say (in the same bored voice) "oh, go on, [horses name]" as if they're being very tedious and boring. If this doesn't work (and it has done, say 8 times out of ten), a little tap behind the leg and the same vocal encouragement repeated has never failed to get them moving.

No ideas about the circling, I'm afraid, as I've never encountered that one (he's only once tried to turn for home, but as soon as he realised I wasn't going to let him he gave up on the idea) but it sounds like you're doing the right thing.

Good luck and here's hoping he settles down *properly* soon!

[HairyCob]

Yann- I'm sure it is partly about confidence, but once he is out on a hack, and past the napping points, he seems to thoroughly enjoy it- it's almost like he is not happy to leave his mates, but once out of eye and ear shot, relaxes and trusts me!
I have tried getting off and leading him, with disastrous results! He obviously realised that he was stronger than me, and I was easier to unbalance on the ground, whipped his head round and buggered off back to the stable yard- luckily only from the farmyard!:rolleyes:
I do carry a stick, but am a bit of a wuss when it comes to using it- have had good results when my patience begins to wane and I do use it tho- and from waving it in front of his eye!
Only riding bitless in the school at the moment, as I don't feel confident to ride out bitless with his current behaviour- discovered a bit that I have more control in tho- a 'normal' snaffle:o Personally I don't like them because of the nutcracker action, but he does have excellent brakes and steering in it (when not napping!!!)
I have also taken to stopping halfway round (or there abouts) our hack, dismounting, loosening the girth and letting him graze for ten minutes on really nice grass, in the hope that he will associate going out with having a nice snack!!

Linda- thanks for the tips, reccomended or not, I'll try them!!:D

Ditz- I was taught never to let them go in the direction they were trying to circle in too, but it is hard not to when half a tonne of horse decides that's the way it's going! My 10 stone doesn't have much chance! I do however try to stop him and make him go the other way round, and when I do, the napping invariably stops immediately! So I'm sure what we have been taught is right!!

Lovecat- HC is very sensitive to my voice and mood so I will definitely try your 'bored now' suggestion! May well work! Thanks!

I have no doubt that I will overcome this problem, and even if he goes back to his 'canter for home' behaviour, I am not as worried about it at my new yard as I was at the old place, as traffic is few and far between where I am now, and what there is is horse friendly!
At the old yard, a skip lorry attempted to overtake us when he was cantering for home once......:eek: :mad: :eek: and if I'm honest, that put me off riding him out from there!

I suspect that the fact that I am a) more relaxed and b) more determined to overcome the problems now means that they will be resolved without him going back to that anyway!! I sure hope so!:D

[TNT]

lovecat! I love your suggestion about the deep heavy sigh and relaxed breath. I'm going to give it a try. When I said circle in the direction they want to go it really isn't a circle but yet it is. I'll try and explain but I'm not really good at it:D In fact it's alot like when Tootsie4u talks about making Bonfire do 100 push ups. It's called a Hip-around and it's really disengaging their hips Lets say your riding out and your horse decides to turn left and head for home you turn it back in the direction you want to go but it turns left for home again. You then slide your left hand down the left rein and bring your horse's nose towards your knee making sure you give lots of right rein so that it can bring it's nose towards your left knee. Squeeze left rein and left calf. your horse will disengage it's hip and turn Squeeze release squeeze release. you can keep doing this or shut your horse down. Once you've done this a couple of times staighten out into the direction you want to go and ask to head out again. If it still turns towards home just repeat until it realizes that your way is much easier. This also works great for an emergency brake. I hope I explained it OK:D Let's face it actually just turning a horse can get kinda scary at times because a horse can go fast in a circle! This Hip around is hard work and can also shut a horse down if things get out of hand . Parelli also uses a Hip around to do an emergency dismount. I'm going to give Lovecat's suggestion a try.

[casey]

Originally posted by LindaAd


Also hitting her on the neck, lots of swift small taps on both sides, or just waving the stick above her neck. This is defiinitely not recommended, but it worked....

Actually this is a technique used by Monty Roberts/Richard Maxwell. Its called a wip wop, and its a piece of rope and you keep lightly tapping both sides of the neck whilst walking.
I havent used it myself, but I heard it works.

[entreat]

Originally posted by DITZ
I was always taught never to let a horse circle in the direction they want to go

I was told this, too. Initially the argument got worse (Cody would plant his feet, and not move - even if I pointed him the direction he wanted!!) but I stuck at it, and we reached an understanding. I want him to move in one direction, and he will move in said direction... or wait an hour - I don't care.

[DITZ]

I was taught never to let them go in the direction they were trying to circle in too, but it is hard not to when half a tonne of horse decides that's the way it's going!

Your doing it right, sorry I didnt explain myself very well. What I meant was when you turn him back round not to continue the circle in the same rotation direction he has chosen.

The tapping on either side of the withers also works, just take the reins in one hand and using the slack thats left over just flick it over either side of his withers. It doesnt hurt but it does make them listen.

[Bertie]

Apologises if I'm cross quoting or repeating just skimmed the previous answers.

I have experience with a friends horse who likes to make the decision when it's time to go home and does the turning and I've had enough we'll go home :p , I use the same methods as yourself perserverance in a calm manner making them walk on turn in the opposite direction lots of leg to move them on when they stop for the first time as well as lots of verbal back up, on the second stop again lots of verbal and leg followed by a tap with the schooling whip, with each stop I use less leg and use a tap earlier always with lots of verbal back up, the epriods of standing still get shorter each time but I always praise for walking on.

His other trick was going up the steps home from the bridal path when he felt like it, I made him go up turn around and back down further down the path and turned round when I was ready. I also tried to going past the steps home than turning round and going back up the steps to re-enforce steps don't automatically mean home.

I think your definately doing the right thing, perserverance and stubborness oon your part is the way forward always remain calm but forceful (in a nice way) don't give in, it's a long process but constant re-inforcement and the suggestions above of working when you arrive back at the yard, using that as your cool down time rather than the end of the hack are all brilliant suggestions.

[nappy-R-us]

Hi all...

this is my first time on the forum. I too have a vey nappy horse called socks. He is an 8 yr old shire/cob cross gelding very heavy set and very strong....doesn't he know it!!!

I have had some serious napping issues with him. I only had him in January and I have now come to learn that he is a generally nervy character. He has bolted across two fields at full gallop on seeing a "killer" rabbit but mostly he just kind of jumps a few strides to the side.

His napping however starts with a state of "frozen watchfulness". He'll see something (usually his own shadow!) and stand bolt still ears pricked staring at it. Then after a few minutes he will snort, pin ears back and spin round for home! I had no brakes....He would not stop!

I live on a farm and so I tried shutting gates to prevent him from getting to stables but this was not such a good idea. He kept walking into the gates, pushing at them and after yo-yo manoeuvers up the track he took to broadsiding the gate crushing my legs. I have had him paw ground and roll to get me off too!

I know what it is like......damn frustrating and scary too. Takes me half an hour to bring him in, groom and tack up and ten minutes after I get on he has played up soooooo much I am back home, usually very muddy or in tears! (or both)

So....I decided to not ride him. Six weeks I led him out daily and practised transitions from halt, walk to trot on the lead using my voice to get the transistion. Finally I decided that if I wasn't going to ride him that I would sell him.

So I duly placed an advert on Adhorse and within hours he was having his first viewing. I warned him to not make me look an idiot!

Anyway...bear in mind I had not ridden for six weeks....I had to get on him to show him to this girl.....my God my heart was pounding...he was going to make me look an idiot and I was going to lumbered with him forever! You wouldn't believe it though....took him into my school and he did EVERYTHING I asked of him. Sure, he was headstrong still and it took a lot of leg to control him but he did it. I asked him to walk, trot and stand and he did it from voice command too!!! I was stunned!

The girl tried him and declared him too headstrong for her so no sale. The next day I got my instructor to give me a lesson on him and she was amazed....he was still trying to nap but I had gotten assertive, and decisive with my aids. He was NOT going to win! A major breakthrough so I withdrew him from sale!

The biggest tips she gave me were as follows:

If you horse naps into arena wall/fence hold schooling whip in outside hand, not inside hand and back up leg with a sharp tap. That really helped me in trot as I found it harder to be as effective pushing him over with outside leg while rising!

Also .....if your horse turns for home back rein him. So although he thinks he has won cuz he is facing home he is actually still travelling in your direction. After a few strides I can circle him and he is "through" the napping.

As previously advised....circling can help. My horse prefers to turn right so at left hand turns he can refuse....I turn him to the right in a circle that finishes with him heading to the left (does that make sense....sort of 270 degrees turn) and he is fooled into thinking he got his own way.

Still not completely over it on the road....but it is more spookiness than napping. His jumping into overtaking traffic when he spots a sweet wrapper is not a good idea! But he will always be nervy.

I don't feed him a hard feed as he is a good doer, just plenty of ad lib hay (not haylage) but I was considering Top Spec Calmer for him. Anyone tried it?

Hope you get all your probs sorted soon and can enjoy your riding. After all.....it's supposed to be fun for us!!

Clare

[HairyCob]

Hi Clare, and welcome to the forum!

Thankyou so much for sharing your experiences...... your post couldn't have come at a better time than today, as I had just finished writing out the ad I planned to use to sell HC when I read it.

Horrible day today, got carted at gallop across three huge fields (one of which we should have strictly been sticking to the edge of), felt totally out of control, completeley lost my seat and only stopped when he reached a gate that was shut...... he stopped, I kept going. Ouch. Only bruised thank god, but it terrified me being that out of control.

Reading your post has given me renewed hope however, so I'm going to file the ad for the time being and go right back to groundwork.... starting tomorrow.

Thanks again for your contribution, and do keep us updated with your progress with Socks, who sounds very much like HC!
Claire and HC!

[nappy-R-us]

Hello again Claire and HC

I couldn't believe it when I read your post either. You and HC are at EXACTLY the same place I was about 7 weeks ago now. It was about that time that I sat out my first ever bolt and it was pretty hair raising stuff. I look back now and laugh. He took off and I yanked my hands up and back (huge error) and was sort of wailing and pleading Nooooooo!!! Sttttooooopppp! (like he knew what that meant!!!) At the same time I kept hold of my schooling whip was probably bobbing up and down as much as my hands and he probably saw it and thought FASTER! FASTER!!! To add insult to injury my hubby was with me and decided in his infinite wisdom to run after him shouting "whooooa Socks!" In effect I am sure he was CHASING him across the field!!!!! But he was too unfit to gallop for long so I hung on for dear life.....actually sort of calmed down and gained balance and when I eventually gave him some rein I was then able to get a contact back and pull him up!

Another thing I got for him was a martingale and a full cheek plate eggbutt snaffle to help him grasp the concept of pressure and release when it comes to steering. I combined that with a flash to make him keep bit in the right place in the mouth and it stopped him getting his tongue over the bit and evading as he headed into the nap!

I have only been riding a short time (6mths) and I know that I bit off more than I could chew with Socks. If I knew then what I know now I would not have bought him but then I have gained a wealth of experience from him that I would not have gained in years on a truly bombproof horse. Ok not all of it has been pleasurable but definately made more of a rider out of me!

I was very very close to giving up on Socks. After he had butted me (nasty black eye, fractured eye socket!!), the bolt and he rolled in temper when he couldn't get his own way all in the space of 8 days I think I can be forgiven for deciding he was too much for me to handle! But, as soon as I took the pressure off myself and forgot about riding and just about handling him things started to improve. I would recommend lungeing lessons to help you get HC to respond to your voice, but just leading him like I lead Socks for 10 - 20 mins a day getting him use to the fact that I was his mum and he WAS going to listen will be remarkable. To think the horse that 7 weeks ago had no brakes no matter how hard I pulled on his mouth now stands by just a gentle command of "stand" is amazing. He really is like a different horse.

He has always stood well to be groomed so I made a point of doing it EVERY day....at least for 15 mins....and talking to him and basically desensitising him to me.

I know it seems a huge challenge but if you can stick with it and you come out the other side you will be SOOOOOOO proud of yourself for your achievements. I know I am. My hurdles may seem small to some people but to me it's been incredulous and I am now hoping that things can only go onwards and upwards from here. I realise there will be bad days....but hopefully more and more good days will counteract them!

I have decided that when you and horse become friends he will respect and then listen to you. I have earned Socks trust the hard way but I will not let him down as I have come this far and I am starting to think that he is beginning to repsect me as his rider.

I found out some of his history just today. A young girl mailed me as she had seen his For Sale ad.....her best friend owned him. She listed distinguishing features not seen on ad's picture and described him kicking with front feet. It turns out that Socks was bought by her friend from a woman who's daughter had lost interest and he had been turned away for two years. As he then proved to be too headstrong in being led and reared at sight of saddle for this girls friend he was left in a field. The longer she left him the worse his behaviour became and she never rode him and he was left alone in a field. So for a long time he had no contact at all. He was then sold, very cheaply, when she lost her grazing, to a riding school who under took to re-school him enough to gain a sale. That was where I came into it! Muggins me! So although Socks is 8 he could be as young as 4 in riding experience terms and I would definately not have taken a horse on that young or green had I realised.

So looking at his past it is remarkable that in such a short time I have achieved anything! I have made a silent promise to myself that Socks finally deserves somewhere to call home and even if I never get the full capabilities to ride him confidentally and seemingly effortlessly I will not let him be subjected to another move!

Socks is staying for life! Companion/riding horse and friend!!!!

So good luck to you and I hope what I have contributed to this post has served to encourage you that all is not lost! I am no expert as I am new to this myself but I think some of what I say must be making sense as it is working for me!!!

Thanks for welcoming me to the forum. I'm 32, got 4 ankle biters and am finally living my lifes dream (although reality has sometimes been a nightmare) to own and ride a horse! I live on our own dairy farm and divide my time between the horse, 200+ cows, the kids, dogs, rabbits, cats and geese!!! busy little me eh?

I will get around to posting pictures one day....but it is 00:16 and I have to fetch cows in for milking at 5am!! I need some sleep..............

Regards

Clare


ps) I got that Topspec Calmer today. £20.50 for a tub that will last two months. Will keep you posted as to whether it helps to calm socks nerves and helps him to rationalise!

[HairyCob]

I'm laughing at reading your first paragraph Clare, swap the husband chasing for two nutty dogs (dalmation and a heinz 57 that is the canine equivalent of an ON the track TB!) and that's me on HC...... "Stop.......pleeeeeeeeaseeeeeee stoooooooop......ohhhhhhhh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttttttt!' etc etc ad infinitum!! with said dogs running along behind like it's the most normal thing in the world to play chase with a horse!:rolleyes:

Sounds to me like you have worked wonders with Socks, considering how long you've had him, his history etc! Well done you! And looking after the ankle biters, cows, dogs, etc..... don't quite know how you fit it all in!!

I'm also 32, happily single with no kids, but fifteen cats a dog and parrot...... full time student nurse and work an extra 20hours a week to make enough money for horse to eat/have new shoes/ get wormed etc! Actually, not sure how I fit it all in either!! Oh, look at the time, that'll be how- who needs sleep anyway??!!

Did some ground work with HC today- thought I'd try 'join up' in the school..... didn't manage join up, but did discover that the little bu**er can jump 4'...... straight over the gate! He's only 15hh for goodness sake!!:rolleyes:

Anyway, thanks again for all your advice and encouragement! Much appreciated!

Will look forward to seeing pics of Socks when you have time!!

[western]

It sounds like u are doing the right thing and sounds like u have alot of patience with that problem wich is good too. My horse used to do that alot when i got him, he used to quick turn auround back towards home every chance when he knew that i would think about something else :D , but i just stuck with it and turn him around in a circle and kept going the way where i was going. It seems though when i got farter out he wanted to keep going and then stopped it. Now he really dosent do it but after an hour of the ride he does it a few times, but i corrected it .

[Horsesaddle]

Just wondering here has he allways napped? hope u get his napping sorted :)

[KarinUS]

Just wondering here has he allways napped? hope u get his napping sorted :)

Horsesaddle,

that post was from 2004. Lot's has happened since then. Unfortunately it didn't have a very happy ending. She no longer has the horse. :(

[NoviceNic]

Hairy Cob - Sounds like he does exactly what Captain used to do. I too have a problem with going back the opposite way he naps. There is no way I can get Captain to turn back on his left rein so i would have to just cirlce him to the right and then keep kicking until he walked forward. I take a small whip out with me on solo jacks as he is more likely to nap then. I get him facing the way I want him to go and give him a little tap on his bottom and say get on. Keep going I am sure your confidence will grow with this nappy moments. I know mine did. I loved it when we could go out and have no naps. :D