Back to Groundwork or sell him.......

[HairyCob]

Need some advice on what groundwork to do please guys!

HC continues to nap and today I got carted over about three miles of fields, at flat out gallop, only stopping at the last gate but one before home cause it was shut.... well, he stopped, I kept going:eek: Ouch! Luckily I have nothing worse than a few bruises, dented pride and knocked confidence, but the 'what if's?' are scary!

I got back on and rode him back to the yard at a walk, then made him do some walk-halt-walk-trot-walk-halt transitions in the school for ten minutes before finishing, but I confess to still shaking like a leaf for about half an hour after I got off:o

I had all but decided to sell him, but then read Nappy-R-Us' post on my other thread, and gave myself a good talking to...... I will not give up on him now! I have however decided to only ride for short periods in the school and do lots of groundwork with him for the time being, in a final attempt to get him to believe that I am in charge and can be trusted to decide where we are going and at what speed!

So, bearing in mind that I am a skint student, and therefore can't afford to go out and buy expensive equiptment like carrot sticks, dually halters etc, what sort of groundwork would anyone reccomend?;)

I have a parelli book and a kelly marks book around here somewhere, neither of which I seem to remember, particularly inspired me when I got them, but now I recognise it is time for some hard work and lessons to be learnt:)

What have you guys had most sucess with? Any and all comments welcome!:D

[Yann]

Oh No! That's serious, and you had every right to be shaken up and upset by it, hope you're OK now:(

I think groundwork would be a good start, getting the horse to long rein and go in front is also supposed to be good for their confidence. In terms of the exercises you don't need any special gear for the stuff in either book really, a headcollar and a school will do, though a slightly longer than normal lead rope is helpful. You certainly don't need a dually halter for the Kelly Marks exercises! With both methods (pretty similar really) the key to it is timing the release of the pressure, sounds simple enough.

If the exercises are a bit hard work for both of you you could try doing what we did and add a clicker and treats, it can really switch them on and make it lot more fun.

In terms of riding, does he do it alone or in company? You could try riding in company and putting him in front, then perhaps increase the distance from the other horse or go a slightly different way at some point as time goes on. The other thing is it might be to do with the time of year, Rio and one or two others at our place seem to be a bit sharper and more spooky than normal, nice new grass perhaps, could have been a factor.

Good luck working through it:)

[shakari]

oh no it's horrible isn't it? Mines taken to rear spinning and he bolted the other day down a narrow country lane combined with bucks and rears so know ho your feeling. Yard owner said to me to do a weeks schooling working on control and aids and then to take short hacks AFTER riding in the school-just short ones though-she says after the schooling he should be fairly sedate so the hacking afterwards should (in theory) be more sedate and thought of as a relaxing reward-mainly walking on a longish rein as a cool down.:D

[Showjumper]

Eeeeks that sounds very scary!!! I always recommend Richard Maxwell's Improve Your Horses Talent (In 20 Minutes A Day). It goes right through groundwork to riding! :D

Although you can do pressure-release work with a headcollar, to get it more fine tuned, I would advise a rope halter. But don't panic! You can make one if you don't want to spend out :)

http://www.goddijn.com/halter/

And a longer rope is very handy as when the horse plays up and tries to escape, you can just lengthen the rope and in essence lunge them until they come back under control.

Good luck! :)

[nappy-R-us]

Hi Claire

You know what, I always thought my horse napping was more about me my riding than him.

I got other people to ride him, people with more confidence and experience when I gave up riding my horse after my nerves couldn't handle any more!! You know, the reckless types who would make good stunt riders!!)

I would stand there in tears watching them get my "horrible, disobedient mule" to do ANYTHING! My nappy horse was ridden bareback without a bridle, just a head collar and lead rope tied round it and he responded to everything my friend Gail asked of him! She also took him for a kind of schooling session across 11 acres of our pasture land! He was fantastic. His canter was effortless and she even got him to gallop uphill! (I add she did intend that....not a bolt) She dropped the reins (Something I would never have entertained...I needed them tight, just in case he took off!) and she got him turning circles just from bending him with the reins. I was "gob-smacked"

She would come back from riding him saying "I have no problem with rhim, my ten year old could ride him! She diagnosed my problem as "****ty-rider-itis!" She actually said that! What she meant was that I carried the baggage of everything bad he had ever done to me everytime I got on him. Infact she said I was probably busing thinking when I tacked him up "dunno why I am bothering I will be home soon!" She was right!!!!

So she told me to try my hardest the next time I rode him to be calm, forgiving and above all to breathe!!!! I knew I couldn't do that at that time which is why I took to the ground work. I didn't use anything fancy....wore a hat in case he butted me again, long 12ft lead rope I got from local saddlery incase he reared up so I could get out of the way but still be in control and his usual head collar. I was going to lunge him but he had NOOOOOOO idea what to do when my instuctor came. Just stood there turning in! I decided I wasn't going to waste anymore money buying more equipment that wouldn't do anything for us and would stand idle in the tack cupboard!

So I started with leading him in hand into my school.....trotted around for a few times one way then the other. Worked on making sure that everytime I asked for trot I said "t-r-o-t-t-i-n-g" and clicked my tongue. I did this everday and after a couple of weeks I actually realised he was moving into trot just by me saying trotting....no need to yank at lead rope. Now he will trot if I just click my tongue! But he will use the spoken command to go back to walk ("walking") from trot and as I said before to stand. I didn't realise how he'd still listen to this when mounted at first but it has been a milestone.

I also took to leading him down the road in bridle with a big bold sign on my back saying "caution young horse". Ok so he isn't young but it kind of made drivers let me off when he was dancing in middle of road and they were more aware that he was likely to be unpredictable!! After a few weeks of leading on the road I found he was more than happy to go passed the "nappy" points. He also learned to walk without trying to eat the grass on road side constantly!!

It will be a slow process for both of us with our horses. Socks is spooky, moody and nappy! But as soon as I realised that there was no rush to "get there" apart from my own inpatience things improved. I am now soooooo much more calmer and I think that he takes my lead in that matter as he is calmer too. I am extra vigilante now and when I ride him I try and pay attention to things coming up that I know he won't like and may "jump" at or "freeze" at and then I am able to talk to him, remain calm and apply very direct leg aids backed up with the crop to get him through it. (Works most of the time!)

When I got on Socks the other day it was amazing the transformation. My horse didn't pay me a blind bit of attention before but here he was ears turned towards me listening intently at me instead of ears pricked waiting for trouble in the form of a leaf, sweet wrapper....etc.

I know I perhaps should have sold socks, there is no doubt a horse out there better suited to me, but having made this amount of progress to my once unrideable (well for me anyway) horse I feel envigorated and proud of myself and him!

I wish you all the luck in the world.....don't rush it.....patience, calmness and above all have the steely resolve to tell HC "You will not win....you will not make me look a prat again!!!" Works wonders does assertiveness! When your horse knows you won't let them get away with it, they sure do respect you more......well that appears to be the case for me anyway.

Best wishes to you and HC

Clare

[DITZ]

Oh Claire you must have been terrified! If its any consolation mine did that to me once, and like you came to a closed 5 bar gate except mine decided at the last minute to jump it. Unfortunately there was a railway line on the other side! No harm done to either of us (although the gate is still off its hinges to this day) but it shook me up no end. I went right back to walking with the occasional trot and only managed to canter about 3 months later but even then it had to be 'just right'. I never galloped him either.

As you probably read its only recently that, having changed his bit to one of the mildest ones that I have really truly felt safe on him which defies logic.

Dont give up on him, its a magic feeling when you overcome something together and worth all the sweat and tears. In the meantime let me pass on a tip for stopping a horse as given to me by my instructor which is to cross your hands over either side of the wither. It always worked for me.

[Harry Hobbes]

I have a parelli book and a kelly marks book
Exactly which books do you have? Titles please.

Harry

[nappy-R-us]

I considered the emergency braking manoeuver when Socks bolted. I was told to cross one arm over the wither and with the other hand reach over and pull hard as close to the bit as you can.

When Socks bolted with me although it only lasted about 40 secs I considered three options :-

1) To throw myself out of side door before he threw me off! Soon discounted that theory as I didn't fancy throwing myself anywhere at what seemed like a hundred miles an hour!

2) Emergency brake....but then I was concerned he may rear or fall over if I pulled him up too hard and I was in such a state of blind panic I couldn't release my then white knuckles from the reins enough to carry it out!!

3) Hold on for dear life figuring that my unfit heavyweight cob was not built for speed and endurance and must surely stop soon!!

I went for number three and thankfully it worked out!!!

Not quite life flashing before my eyes.....but damn close!!!

[chev]

Sounds very scary. Have to admit Parelli et al never inspired me much either but since experimenting on Gelfy I can thoroughly recomend trying them. My carrot stick is a schooling whip with string on, and the halters are fairly easy to make - I got a pattern off the net after googling rope halters.

So far I'm doing ok without spending any money, although joining the Savvy club is on the cards now. If you have a description of the seven games then you can get started - it does reap benefits. Horses nap for all sorts of reasons; insecurity, bolshiness, dominance and so on - the seven games seem to work well to counter all those problems.

Whatever you choose to do, I wish you well. Hope you and HC can work this out. :)

[Southerner]

My horse is nearly level 2 parelli and has been helped but the repetition gets a bit mindless. Use it for what you need to learn and the games will halp stop him being scared and the riding will give you the control to be able to stop.

Just let me know if you want to know more about these mothods

[HairyCob]

Thankyou all SOOooo much for your supportive and helpful replies! Somehow it makes such a difference knowing I have loads of horsey 'friends' out there rooting for us!

Yann- he's OK in company as long as he's in front- though he will still try to nap occasionaly he doesn't go into a total bolt. However,when cantering if the horse 'behind' gets within six feet of him, he's off- can't bear the thought of being overtaken I guess! He does tend to be easier to pull up when in company tho!

Shakari- I'll try the schooling first then hacking thing- good idea!

Showjumper- got that book too! Have to say, it's the one I identify best with, so thanks for the link, i'll print of the instructions and give it a go!! :D

Clare- Thanks, some good tips there- I know my 'baggage' isn't helping the situation, so can identify whith what you say! I'll also try being more assertive with him- i'm definitely guilty of 'mollycoddling' my 'baby' on the ground, which I guess doesn't inspire him to see me as leader!

Ditz- You're an inspiration- and I hold you entirely responsible for my lack of control at gallop- having 'tried' him in an ordinary snaffle a couple of times with good results as a direct result of your experiences, that was what I rode him in!! (only joking, don't hold you even slightly responsible!!;) :D ;) ) Serious about you being an inspiration tho- it's good to know other people have had similar experiences and not only survived them but got out the other side!! Will try to remember the 'emergency brake' if it happens again- sadly tho' all logic seems to leave me when doing 100 mph! I definitley went for Nappy's no.3 option!

Chev- hmmm, schooling whip with baler twine, I can manage that, and Showjumper has given me a link for rope halters...... maybe I'll give that a go! Thanks!

Harry- the books I have are Richard Maxwell 'unlock your horses talent in 20 mins a day', Kelly Marks 'Perfect manners', Tanya Larrigan 'New sensations for horse and rider' (introducing voice training) and Pat Parelli's 'Natural Horse-Man-Ship'. I also have Joni Bentleys 'riding sucess without stress', Healther Moffatt's 'enlightened equitation' which were both intended to improve my riding alongside improving him with one or all of the others!!

On a lighter note, I did our first 'groundwork' session today- thought I'd try Kelly Marks/Monty Roberts Join up- seemed like a good place to start. Our school is only relatively small, so I thought I'd do it in there in the absence of a round pen..... It all started so well but we didn't achieve join up......did discover that Pageant is more than capable of jumping 4'...... straight over the gate!!

Having checked him over for injurys and found none, I went back to the book and re-read the section about doing a form of join up from the lunge line..... much more sucessfull!;) :D

[HairyCob]

Southener, thanks for your reply, you must have posted as I was typing! I'll certainly get back to you if I need any help with parelli! Really appreciate that offer! Thanks!:D

[Harry Hobbes]

HairyCob,

Reference Parelli's Natural Horse*Man*Ship.
...I got carted over about three miles of fields, at flat out gallop...
Practice the "Transition Down" exercise depicted on pages 170-171. (This is nothing more than a variation of the famous "One Rein Stop".) Best place to practice this is in your arena, prior to really needing it while hacking. (Any horse will not gallop for long, with its' head brought around close to your knee.)

In addition, if you get good at the "Leads and Lead Changes" exercises, found on pages 174-183, your horse will be listening to you when hacking out, and will readily transition down when asked. (Don't use your legs to encourage forward motion; rather, "spank" the horse as Parelli demonstrates; on a loose rein. The first time you spank the horse, it will jump forward, so hang on to the saddle, not the horse's face; thereafter. it'll just move forward - provided it's on a loose rein.)

The exercises will help any horse, regardless of flavor (English, Western, Jumper, etc.); and, you do not need fancy western saddles; just a saddle you can stay in (put a buck strap on it if you wish), and loop reins, as shown in Parelli's book (you don't need the 22-foot mecate; just the loop reins.)

Best regards,
Harry

[Harry Hobbes]

On a lighter note, I did our first 'groundwork' session today- thought I'd try Kelly Marks/Monty Roberts Join up- seemed like a good place to start. Our school is only relatively small, so I thought I'd do it in there in the absence of a round pen..... It all started so well but we didn't achieve join up......did discover that Pageant is more than capable of jumping 4'...... straight over the gate!!
The hardest thing about getting started with round pen work at liberty, is the human learning all about "drive lines", and how pressure and release affect the horse vis-a-vis the drive line.

The second hardest thing is learning to read the horse from its' movements.

Push too hard, on the wrong side of the drive line, and the horse becomes Pegasus.

But, you ought to put yourself and your horse back into the school and keep trying, as you are learning how to interact with the horse. If he did the Pegasus thing last time, then lower your energy next time; and watch his movements and demeanor; adjust your pressure and movements to your horse's reactions. Learn from him.

As you get good at ground interaction, then you'll start to realize some real valuable benefits.

Best regards,
Harry

[Bebe]

He sounds a lot like Bebe 18 months ago, she used to take off with me regularly. She didn't bolt, just decided she wanted to go faster/in front and went about doing it with no regard for me.

Lessons worked wonders for us even though she didn't take off in the school. I gained the confidence to sit up and kick on when she did this which meant I was able to keep her hindquarters more engaged which gave me more control. I also learnt how to use my seat better which gave me a finer degree of control than I'd had before. We went from her taking off flat out on average once a week to once in a blue moon.

So, whilst I agree that groundwork will be a big help (I did loads with Bebe when I first got her, have to say I've slacked off a bit now) I think that if you're not having lessons at the moment it would be well worth sorting some out.

[Southerner]

Hi again
Use the pat parelli book but also cerefully read heather moffat as her use of the pelham and massaging may well be appropriate for you. Also work at keeping behind the movement as I suspect you tend to clench forward when alarmed and take a couple of doses of aconite 30 to stop worrying about him carting off!