Disbelief!!!!!

[shandy84]

This follows on from my laminitis supplements thread

After all your good suggestions I contacted Baileys horse feeds for advice on my fillies vitamin intake - she naturally doesn't hold onto her weight (I know odd for a native) but she will eat a good amount - and knowing what to feed her when she moves to her very very lush grazing.

The Details on the Horse:

Horse Age: 18 months

Horse Height: 13hh

Bodyweight: 278 kg

Breed/Type: New Forest Pony

Current Condition: Under Weight

Workload: Rest (she is too young to do anything but inhand walking once a week)

Current Diet: 2 1/2 Scoops of Mollichaff 2 Scoops Stud Mix (split through two feeds)

Hours at Grass: 24/7

Quality of Grass: Very Lush and good

Type of Forage Used: Hay

How much Forage is Fed: 3 Hay Flakes

Horse is Naturally: Under Weight

Hoping to achieve: I want to make sure my filly gets the right amount of vitamins etc but I want to avoid laminitis as the grazing for the summer is extremely lush

This is the response I got:

"Thank you for your email. Your pony is on roughly the correct amount of the mix, so there are no worries about meeting her nutrient requirements etc. If you are worried about laminitis, then you may be better off switching to the stud cubes which have a lower starch level. As she is underweight, I would advise you to add the high fat supplement Ultimate Finish, at a rate
of 1-2 lbs (2-4 mugs) per day. This non-heating nutrient dense source of oils is ideal as a top dress to your existing ration, where you need more calories for weight gain and condition but without a significant increase in the volume of feed being given per day. The high nutrient density is beneficial when you have horses that are fussy feeders with limited appetites.

Ultimate Finish is ideal for improving coat condition due to the specific blend of omega 3 and 6 fatty acids, vitamins and minerals, which produce exceptional coat condition."


To my mind overfeeding is a major cause of laminitis? So wouldn't the amount of feed she has been on all winter be too much for summer months? Her grazing is about 6 inches long and very green. I was more hoping they would suggest a maintenace vitamin lick or something

What's everyone elses opinion?

[Zingy]

I've had some very peculiar responses from feed help lines, like one suggested feeding Benj about 2 huge scoops of feed a day so he would lose weight - this was compared with the tiny handful of the lowest energy mix I could find that I was giving him! So personally I don't rate them!

You're better off at this time of year to be underfeeding rather than overfeeding, particularly if the grass is very rich. It's easier to get weight on than off and will give you less potential health problems. You're right though to think grass won't provide all the nutrients, so a vitamin supplement is the best way to go. I normally feed absolute minimum feed to get the supplement down (but then Benj isn't underweight!). Try a really broad based one - names aren't springing to mind at the moment, but there are lots of them around, or seaweed. I'd be inclined to cut the feed right back when she's turned out and see how it goes for a couple of weeks. If you can check her regularly with a weightape and condition score her you will be able to tell if the feed needs increasing.

[shandy84]

How about putting a vitamin field lick down for them? I am weaning their feed down this week as they move on sunday to the lush field, so by then they shouldbe off feed in the morning and on hi-fi in the evening (for their supplements to be putin will be very small amount)

I have also purchased her a grazing mask to stop her gorging herself in case she gets overexcited with the amount of grass there is - whatever I'm not expecting to be able to catch them for a day or two :)

this is the mask i've bought (the only one that is okay for 24/7 turnout according to themanufacturers)

[Zingy]

My experience with lick supplements is that they dissolve in the rain and the only notice the horses take of them is to poo on them :rolleyes: Yours might be better behaved than mine though!

[shandy84]

:D classy toilet! So I may be best just putting a powder multi vit in their minimal amount of hi fi then?

[RachelEvent]

I've tried a fewe different licks with Ferdie.. he doesn't even attempt to lick lickits, but he thinks horslyx are the best things in the world, as do several other horses at the yard.

He'll happily stand for an hour furiously licking it before deciding to get on with eating boring old hay. They have several different varieties, a normal vitamin one, a respiratory one, and a movement and joints one.

One problem though; they are made of very sticky gloopy brown stuff, which will make your horse look like something out of a horror movie, and when wet, you will really want to avoid them.. it has all of the powers of creosote :eek:

Rachel xx

[shandy84]

They sound brilliant he he, they love mollasses and that has the same effect I may look into getting one of them as both my girls really like any licks I gave them a salt lick and that goes within a few weeks.

[shandy84]

This is a pic of the field they are moving into! It has grown in a week!

[shandy84]

This is what they're in at the moment - you can see my concerns!

[JaniceH]

You can just see the look on Brambles face!

Er Mum, if you think I'm going to put my periiddy likkle hoovies in all that nasty mud, you have another think coming!!!! I want some of that up to my hocks green grass thankyou!

If you put the lick in their field shelter (which has a roof, unlike the other one :rolleyes: ) it wouldnt get wet in theory. Mind you if they are wearing a grazing muzzle, they wouldnt be able to get to the lick????

[shandy84]

You spotted the deliberate mistake!!! No we're hoping to take the muzzle off after her system gets a bit used to it! Humm, even Shandy has had to admit defeat when it comes to avoiding puddles - there's just too many!

[T-bred]

Ultimate finish is what Caesar is on to gain and keep weight and it is AWESOME!!!! It is just a supplement that goes in with the grain and the horses love the taste!! I know that 4 cups or however much a day seems like alot but that is only in the beginning to help the horse gain the weight but after your horse is at a good weight then you cut back and maybe then only give 1 to 1 and a half cups a day. It works really well though!!

Anna

[shandy84]

I'm trying to avoid too much weight gain as I believe she will put a lot of weight on when she moves to the very rich grazing

[Bebe]

I'd be tempted to leave her on her current levels of feed for the time being and muzzle her for at least 10 hours a day when she goes onto the richer grazing. My immediate concern re: laminitis would be a sugar/fructin overload from the sudden change in grazing rather than any weight gain. A muzzle should limit her grass intake enough to stop that but you're still going to need to top up her calories if you go down that route.

Or, I'd still muzzle for a while or limit turnout on the new grazing to a few hours per day whilst she gets used to it. I'd start changing her feed now from mix to something like TopSpec (I'm pretty sure they do a youngstock balancer) with Hi-Fi Lite/Happy Hoof as this would bring her starch and sugar intake way down. If she doesn't gain enough weight on this with the grazing, then I'd think of adding something else, probably a fibre product with a higher energy spec.

[shandy84]

Thanks Bebe, we can't have her out on limited turnout which is why I bought the grazing mask as we have no option to put her on it. I was suggested a happy hoof type mix may help her as well as going away from the mollichaff to a hi-fi i'll see if I can find any local stockists. Cheers

[Bebe]

I have the same problem, it's either turnout or not for Bebe and she hates to be stabled for longer than it takes to be groomed, etc in summer so she will wear her muzzle once we go onto the richer grazing.

It's better than the alternative, but I still feel bad putting it on.

Good luck with your Filly.