Pelvis tipped one way, body the other - help!

[Esther.D]

Just shown some photos of me riding Rupert to my mum who immediately (and quite correctly pointed out that my pelvis is tilting to one side, one leg is longer than the other and I am tilting my body to the other side to achieve what I perceive as being straight. (My mum is a physio who has done a lot of work with RDA riders....and notices things like that:rolleyes: ).

On her advice I am going to start some sessions in Alexander Technique as I also need to relax and supple up generally.

Any other suggestions to stop tilting my pelvis, as this will obviously not help Rupert :(

I had never noticed it, but when she pointed it out it became obvious in all the pics :rolleyes:

[Esther.D]

If it was just one pic that would be just an unfortunate picture but it is in all of them :(

I have ignored my shoulders in this one as I am leaning to look at Rupert, but you can see what I mean about the pelvis and legs

[Esther.D]

Again, I am also looking very hunched and tense, but this was before the revelation of it being the saddle not me - I am much happier now I have got rid of that saddle (it is currently selling well on ebay :D ).

[Lgd]

The Alexander lessons are the best thing you can do - if you want a practitioner who specialises in riders I can recommend one to you who is based in Gateshead.

Other than that just being aware of the problem will help stop some of it.

[Mehitabel]

perhaps go to a chiro/osteo and see if there's anything crooked? i was told by my osteo that while alexander is very slow and thorough, they won;t even start looking at specific problems until you've done the first course, so it might be a long time coming right.
i have an old hip injury that makes me go crooked over time, and i do exactly what you're doingin the pics. i need regular (about twice yearly) 'putting back' to keep me straight.

[Esther.D]

I have a stiff hip which I think is what is causing this tilt. I am just concerned that now I have identified the saddle issue I need to sort the rider issue :)

Incidentally thanks for identifying the saddle issue for me. I tried my australian stock saddle and made sure it was well back on him....and hey presto...not only could I keep my position again but I also regained my confidence as I felt far more secure :) So I am very happy with that, I just need to sort my tilt out and all will be well ;)

[Waikato Valuta]

i adgree you can get everythign checked but those photos dont look to bad and most of it might be the angle. of the photo, have you got and action shots?

[Esther.D]

WV I know, I am my own worst critic :D I just put a few in that showed it clearly as I was wearing my body protector and a light coloured jumper which made it easier to see. I'll have a hunt for some more action pics :)

[Esther.D]

I haven't got any fast action ones and the others are mostly like this one, which doesn't show the right angle to see whether there is an issue (apart from my 'pram pushing hands' :rolleyes: told you I was my own worst critic ;) )

[galadriel]

Hey, Esther, can I get a picture of your saddle from behind?

Another good pic might be one of you & Rupert from behind, trying ;) to get him square.

[Esther.D]

these are in two different saddles, and I seem to do the same thing in both. I can get you photos from behind of both saddles now if you want them minus pony :) I'll have a look for one from behind when Rupert is square...give me a minute :)

[Esther.D]

Lots of saddle pics (mods I will delete these once people have had chance to look)

The Wintec (which slides forward and I can't ride in, currently up on ebay). This is what Rupert is wearing in the above pics (except the last one, which I think is in his stock saddle if I remember rightly).

[Esther.D]

The Wintec is a CAIR one with airpanels by the way..

Here from the front

[Esther.D]

I've just noticed - if you look at the left of the first pic you can see D.B. the rat coming to see what I am doing :D

Here is are the panels

[Esther.D]

ok, now the stock saddle from the back...starting to get very bad feelings about the straightness of this saddle after seeing the photos :( I like this saddle :(

[Esther.D]

from the front, look at the twist.....please tell me this is just the leatherwork, not the tree:(

[Esther.D]

and the panels....

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Esther.D
starting to get very bad feelings about the straightness of this saddle after seeing the photos

hang on just a sec, don't get too down yet. I think your saddle stand is crooked; all the pics need to be rotated slightly. will get back to you in a sec :)

[galadriel]

Okay, I was curious about 2 things.

1) if the panels are off-center, then it can make the rider twist that way in order to feel centered. It would be an interesting coincidence if you had two saddles off-center that way, though.

2) If you do in fact ride off-centered, it can cause a twist in the tree over time. You can also flatten out one panel more than the other, incidentally, by leaning harder on it.

I don't think either of these is a problem for you, though. I think the stock saddle, at least, is straight (even though the front has that upsetting crooked appearance ;))

http://www.galadriel.shaftnet.org//horses/saddles/esther/esther-stock-lines.jpg

The panels look perfectly centered. They also look to be the same size. Are they really English-style panels? They look like they might be Western-type bars, even though they're covered in serge.

This picture has an optical illusion of the pommel being off-center from the cantle, but I think it's the angle of the picture. The cantle and pommel do seem to be aligned in curve (purple). You can see that the leather on the right is a little cockeyed, though--cosmetic flaw (red line).

http://www.galadriel.shaftnet.org//horses/saddles/esther/esther-stock2-lines.jpg

This picture is head-on, and it still looks like the pommel and cantle are properly aligned (purple). You can see the cockeyed leather bit that was visible from the back, but it's not part of the tree; it's just cosmetic.

Despite all the other messiness in the appearance there, it looks like the tree itself is actually straight. For both the red and yellow lines, I drew one line, copied it, flipped it, and moved it to the opposite side. So the lines are precisely the same angle and length, just reversed. I *think* all that is just appearance, not structure.

I could be wrong! Obviously I can't pick it up and feel how each side compares to the other. You might still want to get it checked out.

If the saddle does indeed have Western type bars, you're not going to flatten out one panel by pressing on it more. Unfortunately, that means that the extra pressure goes through to Rupert's back. It doesn't sound like you're riding long and hard yet, so it's probable that this hasn't actually affected his back yet :) And since you're planning to fix it, it shouldn't become a problem, right?

[Tootsie4U]

I feel for ya Esther. I've got a very dominant right side (right hip) possibly from some mild scoliosis and I really have to concentrate to keep things in line. The classical seat does not come easy.

My instructor seems to think that the only way to fix it or manage it is to see the chiro.

Question for Gal: Is there anyway to un-twist a twisted tree? If the panels are unequal - would simple re-flocking take care of the balance?

Does Esther keep her saddles in the sunlight - I've heard that can twist 'em.

What about how you store them? If they're kept on a board, say six inches wide, rather than a proper saddle stand, would that affect the shape? Just some general questions Im not sure about...

[Esther.D]

Thanks Galadriel:)

The panels are like English ones although they are broader. They actually feel rather softer than Pablo's English saddle (a Walsall Barnsby GP, rather elderly but nice:) ). So yes one could flatten more than the other with uneven pressure.

The leather work is not perfect, the saddle was a second due to this (I should have mentioned that before) otherwise I couldn't have afforded it :) But I was assured the tree etc was fine.

I'm glad it seems to be straight, I can cope with wonky leatherwork providing the tree and panels are ok.

No, Rupert rarely does more than 1/2hr of ridden work a week, so I think his back should be safe;)

I'll make sure I fix the rider before I do more :D

[Esther.D]

In answer to Tootsie - the saddles are kept on saddle racks on the tackroom (used to be the spare bedroom......:D ), out of direct sunlight. Although it would have to be a very hot day in the UK to soften/warp a tree I would imagine this is more of a problem for warmer climates;)

Galadriel, I can't seem to get your pictures to come up - is it just this slow computer?

[Tootsie4U]

They didnt come up for me either...

Im certainly no geography wiz - I can never remember where you guys are located... either way, on most saddlery sites they make a fuss about it so I thought I'd add it to the topic :D

[Esther.D]

I have come across that too Tootsie, and I suspect it would be possible even in northern UK, but over here they would probably need to be in a car or something to really build up enough heat to affect them.

[galadriel]

Huh. It looks like the server that I put the pics on has crashed. Here they are from a different server:
http://lorienstable.com/temp/esther-stock-lines.jpg

http://lorienstable.com/temp/esther-stock2-lines.jpg

[Esther.D]

Thanks, thats better! I see what you mean Galadriel, the wonky leather work and wonky saddle rack were making the whole thing look out when in fact it looks as if it is straight after all. Thank goodness! I thought I finally had a saddle that fitted both of us and that didn't slide about..and then I was paranoid it had a wonky tree after seeing the photos.

Phew:D It may not be the world's neatest piece of saddlery but providing it doesnt harm Rupert or affect my position I don't care :)

[cate-e-kins]

I had the exact same thing about 2 yrs ago, I even caused a rub on the horses back I had on loan because of it.

I went to a Mctimony chiropractor who realigned a twist in my pelvis from a car accident years before. At first it felt strange bcos all my muscles on one side of my back had to work again.

Anyway, I am noe much more balanced and straight in the saddle and horse much happier too!!

Hope you get sorted, Love Care:)

[galadriel]

Sorry about the pics. Since they're on the second page now, that makes it a bit harder to compare to the originals. Here:
http://lorienstable.com/temp/esther.html
Side by side comparison.

If there's a very minor twist, then it is possible to un-twist the tree.

If the tree is synthetic and soft, then re-flocking and riding evenly may do it.

If the tree is laminated wood, then you can take the saddle apart, put the tree in a vise, and twist it back :)

Keeping a saddle stored crooked could twist the tree over time. It's better to have it on something that supports it so that it hangs straight and symmetrically. The saddler recommended getting a wide log from a firewood place, saw it in half, mount the two halves on the wall or on a stand--voila, two saddle stands. He said that it's much better if the saddle stand helps hold the shape of the saddle, so that the weight of the flaps isn't constantly pulling on the tree.

If the tree is synthetic and soft, it would be much more likely to deform in heat, especially if it is not hanging straight. Enough heat could warp a laminated tree also.

Those are really nice looking panels :)

[Em 1]

I'm sorry, this probably won't come out right but I know exactly what you mean by 'log off and get on with your PhD' - horse riding is much more interesting even if I don't get to call myself Dr.!

One very simple suggestion is you try to sit up straight. You are pretty straight but could be taller. Really think of stretching your spine upwards and sitting as tall as you can. Lift your rib cage. If anything lift your nose, ears, drop your shoulders. Once you have found a relaxed compromise on this try riding.

[Waikato Valuta]

galadriel

I have a saddle just like the one in the photo

Do you know what type they are and how much they cost?

Thanks

[galadriel]

WV--that is Esther's saddle; all I know about it is what's in the pics.

[Esther.D]

VW - the saddle in the pics (the one with the blue lining to the panels) is an australian stock saddle. It is a Kimberly saddle from the Down Under Saddle Co when they had a uk outlet (seems to have closed now), this is it on the US site
http://www.downunderweb.com/kimberleysaddles.htm

it was £300 and something (with the bridle and breastplate) as it is a slight second.