schooling and things

[notpoodle]

wasnt sure whether to put this in traning of the horse or traning of the rider. but, seeing im sure the problem is me ...

angel hasnt done much along the lines of schooling, shes mainly been hacked out by youngsters. she is 12 and has a dutch gag (which someone decided she needed about four years ago), which she doesnt like/ doesnt respond to terribly well (evasion, sometimes mouth wide open, head in the air .... ive been riding her on quite a long rein now, which seems to work a lot better than having a contact all the time). her steering is a bit iffy (i blame the 4 years of wearing the gag and probably being pulled about a bit too much), her brakes aren't great (walk to halt transition works well, trot to walk or canter to trot takes a while of her jogging) ...

so far ive been practising steering and braking with mainly weight aids and voice aids with her (my weight aids arent very good, but she is responding to them quite well!!). her canter in the school is quite unbalanced, so i have decided to work on the walk and trot in the school for starters, and leave canter for hacks for the moment.

am i doing this right? do you think i should just take up more rein contact straight away instead, even though she cleary dislikes it? my plan is to not rely on the reins so much to hopefully get her to loosen up a bit in the school ....

this is my first pony btw, and i will take lessons with her ... i was just wondering if my basic ideas are okay ...

julia
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[jovi_y2k2]

what you're doing sounds good, have you thought about long reining?? works wonders on youngsters to teach turns n stop and go, also if she really hates the dutch gag try a different bit?? maybe a hanging cheek snaffle? as its fairly similar with the poll action just less leverage, also her evasion may be due to mouth problems? have her teeth checked if they havent been done recently and check the fit of your tack and also her back too as these can also lead to problems

[Mehitabel]

is she still on trial or is it official now?
as soon as she's 100% yours, i'd just change the bit and then get some lessons - even one a fortnight and work on stuff you can practice on your own in between times. given both steering and brakes are less than perfect (although you don't know how much of that will change with a bit change) it's not going to be the easiest of tasks to sort all that out at the same time as getting to know her, what's 'testing' and what's genuine 'can't', without an instructor handy at the same time.

the thing is, there are various reasons she might be doing it, not least likely just being an exmoor, and it's very hard to give useful advice without seeing it. (i have a show this weekend, but will see about coming to visit at some point soon!)

[notpoodle]

i will get some lessons with her soon, ie i can find a space for a private in the evening thats not booked up :)

i am planning to change the bit as soon as she is mine and i'll also have her saddle etc. checked then (because i suspect the saddle needs re-stuffing at the least). her teeth have been checked not that long ago (couple of months) and that was fine (or so i am told).

her steering/breaking issues aren't disastrously bad, just a bit iffy, she hasnt bolted or ever really done anything scary (and believe me, i get scared easily when on horseback). i would just like to try and sort out these issues before it becomes a problem, and (even though i am really not the competitive type), i'd rather she was happy with what i am doing than it potentially turning into some kind of metaphorical armwrestle a la angel vs. julia :)

she is much better on a longer rein and often speeds up when i take up more rein contact (i suspect thats what she's been taught to do in previous homes), so strangely enough, to slow her down, its more or a pressing my buttocks together, sitting up, closing my leg ever so slightly and sometimes making a *brr* noise than trying anything with the reins ...

@ es: it'd be great if you could come and see us :) and i'm sure angel could do with a glance from your expert eye :)

julia
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ps: were still on trial, but i am pretty sure she's the pony for me because she is pretty much my ideal pony: has been absolutely bombproof so far (which is very important for me and my confidence ..), is great in traffic (passed a moving huge 4x4 which got quite close and she didnt even look at it), very easy to handle and catch, has overall good manners on the ground and .... i love her to bits :D

[Mehitabel]

i would just like to try and sort out these issues before it becomes a problem, and (even though i am really not the competitive type), i'd rather she was happy with what i am doing than it potentially turning into some kind of metaphorical armwrestle a la angel vs. julia


quite right. but trying to do that in a bit she doesn't like and with a saddle that might not fit well is stacking the odds against you rather! what i'ddo if it were me would be to get a feel for her as you've ben doing, then start trying to sort out the problems as soon as i can get all the things in my favour possible. if she's fighting the bit then she's also fighting you, and if you start trying to get her to soften, respect a bit she doesn't like, she's going to think it's you she's fighting.

how much longer is the trial for? if you're pretty sure now then i'm sure the owners would be happy to take a cheque sooner rather than later, and then you can get on with things.

[notpoodle]

another two weeks of trialling but i am tempted to just pay up for her and keep her asap because then i could go tackle the bit/saddle stuff .... and, we're obvously still getting to know each other and get used to each other and things (ie. she doesnt get treats for no reason from me ...)

julia
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[sanna]

Hi there,

maybe you could ask the owner if you can try the different bit or saddle on her. Since you do intend to buy her, it's only fair that you find out before hand if this is a problem that can be fixed. What if you make the changes but you see no improvement? Would you still want to buy this horse?
I would find out before you get too attached to the horse. Because it sucks if you have to let a horse go. I am a member of a horse club and 10 of us share 5 horses and unfortunately the club bought a horse and didn't vet it right away, and we all got attached to the horse and now it turns out it is totally unsound due to an old injury. It is still on trial and we will have to exchange it, but it's so sad to have to give it back not knowing where it is going to end up.
So, I'd say ask if you can try the different bit, so you can make an informed decision before you really buy the horse.
Good luck

[notpoodle]

she has been vetted (by now!), so that's all good. and i wouldn't term her as a 'problem horse' either. she has been hacked by youngsters for too long and got pulled about too much. but, overall, she is very good natured and i do enjoy riding her :)

julia
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[MelanieD]

Which ring have you got the gag on? If you put the reins on the big ring then it's pretty much a snaffle, so if she's hating the gag action and it's on one of the smaller lower down rings that might be worth a try. A slightly naughtier suggestion: buy or borrow whatever bit you'd want to try on her if you bought her and ride her in it for a few mins. If you don't want to do it the naughty way you could always try asking the owners if you could try another bit on her. It's not unreasonable to expect to try her in a milder bit before you buy. If you are feeling brave you could try riding her in the school in just a headcollar to confirm it's the bit she doesn't like. She sounds similar to my horse in some ways, she was doing the whole head up and mouth open etc. As soon as I rode in a halter she relaxed straight away and the brakes and steering started to work better! When you got her vetted did your vet check her teeth? Could be worth checking as even assuming the owners are totally honest they could have used a vet that isn't good at spotting some teeth issues, I've heard so many times of vets missing problems with horses teeth. If you can get her to respond to weight aids than that's great but it is handy to be able to back them up with the reins in those 'not listening' moments.

My horse was similar with being unbalanced in canter as well, I did pretty much what your doing and it worked. I only cantered out hacking until she was a little more balanced and could canter without doing a horrible transition and rushing off.

Angel sounds lovely and it sounds to me like the problems you have with her could be sorted out reasonably easily, good luck with her :)

[cvb]

you can also ride in a dutch gag with TWO reins - one as snaffle on main ring and then a lower one. Use the snaffle rein unless you end up needing more control for some reason. If you never pick up the bottom rein, you have your answer ! ;)

[FreedomStar]

I agree with everyone else, ask if you can try her in a different bit!!! Or better yet, see how she goes in a bitless bridle or a sidepull. About the canter issue, she might need to strengthen the use of her hindquarters, as the canter starts there. Do lots of exercises like turn on the forehand which actually helps the horse to lift her back and become more rounder which helps with balance. also, leg yielding at the walk and trot is very helpful! It really gets horses to use their hind end more and helps them become more aware of the placement of their hooves. :D Could you also use trot poles and raised cavaletti? Those help with rhythm and impulsion.

[notpoodle]

thanks for all your replies guys :)

the reins are on the ring that's closest to the one that would make it a snaffle (ie. the mildest setting). i have done trotting poles with her once, she went over beautifully a few times, then i think she got bored because she started more or less crashing over them/knocking them. i'll try the turn on the forehand thing more often, because she's quite good at it :)

the vet had a look at her teeth at the vetting and said they were fine. before that, she's been seeing a dentist once a year (and yes, i do believe the owner because i got to know her quite well during this pony-buying process).

i would love to try something bitless, but am a little unsure as to how to go about it in terms of: which type of bitless? just a halter? and how do i introduce it? just try it in the school and hope for the best? and what if she's okay with it in the school and i try it on a hack and suddenly find i have no brakes? am also a bit worried because some bitless bridles operate with pollpressure which she doesnt seem to like very much ....

as for cantering her in the school, ive decided to leave that for the minute (ie. canter on hacks only) and try to work on her overall fitness/steering and things in the school first.

julia
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ps: b***y tube strike means i cant go and see her today - the field is checked a couple of times a day though and there's friends, grass and water for her , so she should be okay :)

[miggy]

IMHO a dutch gag sounds a bit severe for an exmoor, esp if she has been pulled about by kids. I never let my children loose with anything other than a straight bar happy mouth!
As a compromise if you are thinking about bitless-I have swopped my strong/fussy mare from a snaffle to a myler combination short shank-she is so much happier and I have so much more control.
If you buy through gills bit bank-you get 2 week trial for £10 so that might help you in case things dont work out with bit or pony.
On the other hand it could just be her being an exmoor and telling you what she thinks of the school-mine walks into the school and starts groaning-literally-she walks round groaning-never heard anything like it!

[cvb]

she's an exmoor ??? dutch gags tend to have quite a skinny mouth piece. Have you checked the fit of the bit ? If ok, it may be that a skinny single joint snaffle is just not comfy in her mouth and she needs something softer. (after all, what you're describing is an evasion).

I happen to be a big fan of loose ring french links.

the reins are on the ring that's closest to the one that would make it a snaffle (ie. the mildest setting). Actually the mildest setting would be on the snaffle ring - why not try it as an experiment ? might help you understand whether it is the lever action which is the problem, or the mouthpiece itself.

Going bitless is a big step, and won't necessarily help you understand what the bitting problem is. So if/when you DO want a bit again, how will you know what to choose ? i.e. it could just DELAY the question, rather than answering it.

[notpoodle]

the bit was given to her by the owner she had before the previous one. i have been told that this girl (then 9) kept her in 24/7 and she (understandably) went a bit mad/strong after that so they 'sorted' that with the gag :o

i'll try the actual snaffle ring when i ride her tomorrow (in the school for starters).

the gag does seem to be correctly fitted (have asked someone who knows what theyre doing about that one, because that was one of my concerns, too).

she's quite big for an exmoor btw and takes cobsize bridles and headcollars, ie does not have a little pony head :)

julia
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