Yet another Bit question?

[berties-girl]

I am riding Bertie in a pelham, i sometimes try him in his snaffle with a flash but he is just too darn strong and i end up getting carted across the fields, he is happy in his pelham and i can hold him....just. My question is although i have never done it and i have never seen it, can you use a flash with a pelham, as he is opeing his mouth so wide and trying to pull on the bit all the time when we are jumping, he gets very excited and just wants to gallop at everything with his mouth open crossing his jaw.

[helenc]

It's not a good idea to use a curb chain & a flash as they lie in the same place & will send confusing signals to the horse.

[MelanieD]

A flash with a curb bit isn't a good idea, but you could try a crank noseband. It doesn't keep the mouth closed as well as a flash but so long as it's not too high up it can stop the mouth wide open and bugger off thing.

Having said that combining a flash and curb isn't good, I have seen quite a few people do it so may be worth a try if you don't want to get a crank noseband. Problem is that the flash goes underneath the curb and stops it being as effective, but if that's balanced out by the increased control from him not being able to open his mouth to evade it might work.

[Gemma16]

Why not try a grakle? they are specifically for horses that cross the jaw? I'm not sure how it would work with a pelham because of the curb, but it should help with control

[helenc]

Originally posted by Gemma16
Why not try a grakle? they are specifically for horses that cross the jaw? I'm not sure how it would work with a pelham because of the curb, but it should help with control

A grakle would also lie in the same place as the curb chain. I think MelanieD is right in suggesting a crank. It would certainly be worth a try.

[berties-girl]

Thanks eveyone, i jumped him again last night and tried making him walk after each fence and try and calm him down, although it was working as soon as i try and do a combination of fences he gets himself all wound up again and we are off at an uncontrolable speed with the mouth wide open, im going to give his hanging cheek snaffle one more go tommorrow and see if i can hold him, if not it will be back to the pelham as the show is on Saturday:eek: :D

The other thing i might try is a cheltenham gag as this would still give me the polll action to bring his head down and i could use a flash safely.

[Gemma16]

If you are changing from a curb bit, I have seen horses totally change once they are stopped from crossing their jaw. I found grakles very helpful.

Hope you find a solution anyway.

[Mehitabel]

a cheltenham gag raises the head, it doesn't lower it. the poll action is different as when you pull the reins, the mouthpiece slides up the leather bits and exerts upwards pressure.
the hanging cheek also has very little poll pressure - the cheeks mainly work by suspending the bit in the mouth, rather than having it rest more heavily on the tongue and bars. have a play with the hanging cheek - when you're in the ground, get someone to use the rein as you would from on top and you'll see that the bit where the cheekpieces attach to doesn't move forward and give poll pressure, but rather the cheekpieces will 'bag out' away from the head.
a wilkie or 3-ring snaffle would give you poll action without a curb chain.

but (as usual) a change of bit will only be a short term answer in 99% of cases. to really solve the problem you need to school the hrse to be obedient to the aids. yes, some horses do need a bit of extra 'reminding' when things get excited, but sooner or later you'll run out of stronger bits to try and by then the horse will be so set in its ways that reschooling will be much harder.

[k888tie]

how about using a dutch gag/continental bit...on the bottom hole....as this will put pressure onto the horses poll instead of using a curb chain and a flash on the horse....like some1 else said before....its sends them confusing messsages. and with the dutch gag n can use a flash. also how about going right back to the basics of jumping and do loads of grid work and flat work, so that the horse is completely listening to you. it seems like a real **** to have to do this but it may work. with the dutch gag u could also use roundings which will put even more pressure on the poll.....its worth a try mayb?:rolleyes:

[berties-girl]

Thanks again, i am going to try some differant bit combinations tonight (weather permitting), i have a dutch gag so i might give that a go, will let you know how it all goes.

Thanks

[carrie160]

dont' shoot me down but i personally dont think there is a problem with wearing a flash with a pelham.

Millie almost always wears a flash and she goes much better for it, when i used to jump her in a pelham she wore a flash and was good. I still do cross country with a pelham and a flash and she goes really well, and doesnt get too strong.

I've done some shows this year and i always wear a pelham at shows (shows excite her and she gets strong so i have to use a pelham), in classes on the flat i just wear a cavason, but in a working hunter i wear a flash as well as the pelham (she really needs a flash for jumping) and shes fine....i actually see a few people do this

[berties-girl]

Well i did the show and i did use a flash with the pelham whch seemed to work, the flash asctualy came below the curb so the 2 didnt touch and didnt cause the horse any discomfort, so thanks Carrie160 for the suggestion, oh and we came 2nd.