Almost embarassed but need help

[Tootsie4U]

Well, you can be certain that my one month's absence from formal riding lessons has taken its toll on my riding. :o

My first concern is what you think about Bon's way of going. It has been torture trying to get him soft and on the bit. These pics were mostly taken as a way for me to see if and how badly he's been going hollow. Do you see it?

Also, we've got a show scheduled for Saturday. My position has gone to heck. This outdoor arena has very poor footing (very very deep) and I've compensated for Bon's stumbles and exagerated steps by leaning forward. OMG!!!!!

Just asking for opinons to see if you can see what Im seeing :D There is a few. They're in sequence, by the way.

Thanks

[Tootsie4U]

Notice the evasion... tracking left - his bad side.

[Tootsie4U]

Trying VERY VERY hard to fix the bend. Incidently, in order for me to get the correct bend, I have to lower and open the outside rein while pushing him into it with my inside leg. It takes ALOT of leg. Really ashamed of my position in this one... yikes! Maybe fixing my position will help fix the lean :mad:

[Tootsie4U]

Two of trot. Hollow?

[Tootsie4U]

I think this one Im asking for more gas. Must break the habit of lifting my ankle. Man, you guys are really getting to see the ins and outs of Tootsie's habits :D


Leaning forward in every single one :mad: :mad: !!!!!

[IrisSilverMoon]

yup...LOL...leaning forward in each one...;) hehe...

some other things i noticed were that you're elbows still seem to stay back, so this is good.

your feet really slip through the stirrup which is probably a consequence of not having your heels down. you may be pinching with your knees in the last picture, that one seems to be the most noticeable as far as leaning forward and heels not down.

The trot actually looks pretty good for a young horse, the canter looks a little hollow, but the trot seems to be comming along.

If you were my student i'd put you on the lunge, take away your stirrups and make you do seat work until we'd fixed this leaning forward thing. If you can get this instruction somewhere, go for it. If not fix your seat so your sitting on your rear as often as possible until it starts to stick in the right position again.

[shandy84]

Tootsie i'm no person to comment on position as mine is probably a lot worse than anything you have described, however, I have found that a little time before any competition i always seem to be really bad and yet manage to pull out all the stops on the day maybe it's that?

Good luck at the show - what are you competing in?

[Mehitabel]

you are leaning forward, but you know that.

in the second pic, you're twisting with him - remember what i said when you sent me that video about you twisting to the outside where you're using your inside aids so trongly? do less - you're pushing so hard that you're pushing him out.

looking at the length of his stride i'd say the speed has crept up again too - you look like you're powering round a three day even steeplechase! slow it all down and let him regain his balance.

overall, i'd say relax and do less - you look like you're trying too hard and making it harder for him to relax; he looks tenser than i've seen for a while.
remember you do this for fun!

the trot one, again, i think it's too fast and pushing him out of his rhythm (one of my besetting sins too!) especially since you're asking for more gas and that looks like a decent medium trot stride length already.

and ISM agrees with me about no stirrups! ;)

[Tootsie4U]

As always, you guys really help to bring perspective. I know this show is coming and I may be pushing us too much. Slow and steady always wins the race.

Thanks so much.

From what you've seen, would you say he looks uncomfortable?

[Mehitabel]

uncomfortable? no. less happy than at the happiest i've seen him, yes. but then we all have off days.

[anuvb]

Nothing much to add to the other replies, but I do think you look like you're tense and trying too hard in the photos, which would account for tipping forward, heel up etc. It's bound to happen with a break from lessons and it happens to everyone. We all have off days, it just gives us something more to work towards.

Working without stirrups and doing some warm up exercises (you not Bon) before you start should loosen you up a bit and get things off to a better start next time.

... and if it's any consolation I have plenty of days where nothing co-oridnates and everything looks a mess ;)

[Tootsie4U]

His saddle needs looking at very badly! Surprised he doesnt show it... but thats his way - one tough cookie.

Unfortunately just found out my regular saddler moved to Virginian (about 500 miles away!!!) Frantically looking for a new one. :(

Thanks anuvb, you're always good for encouragement :)

[Tinkerbell]

Originally posted by IrisSilverMoon
your feet really slip through the stirrup which is probably a consequence of not having your heels down. you may be pinching with your knees in the last picture, that one seems to be the most noticeable as far as leaning forward and heels not down.

Eek! I am so guilty of that! Having managed to train my heel to stay down, I have now perfected the art of gripping up with heels down :rolleyes:

Enough hi-jacking! Good luck with the show. Whereabouts are you competing? ISM tells me that the East Coast is very horse oriented, which is useful :cool:

[Tootsie4U]

Hi Tink,

We're just showing locally - a small schooling show. Hunter Under Saddle and maybe one in hand class. It'll be his first and mine (under saddle, anyway...) Im in trouble if my nerves have *already* got the best of me :D

NE is very horsey. Especially where I am. Im only 20 mins from Saratoga where life revolves around race horses.

[CityGirl]

Toots - nothing to add on the critique front but did want to empathize as I know what you're going through. " My name is Rachel & I'm a leaner too":D

Good luck at the show - have FUN!

[IrisSilverMoon]

I have an idea on how to check your position yourself.

every so often try to hold your legs up and stay balanced. If you can't do it or can't do it for very long it means you are doing something with your body you should not be doing (ex. gripping with your knees, leaning forward). This can be a signal to you to fix your seat, once you can maintain holding your legs up and feel balanced, you'll know you are in a good position.

[Dizzy]

I had a lesson today, and one of the things I was picked up on, was how I held my schooling whip. Instead of supporting it and lying it across my leg, it was aimed at the floor down past Breeze's shoulder. This changed my hand position by twisting my wrist and putting my thumb to the inside, which made my rien aids on that rien difficult for Breeze to decipher, so instead of flexing she yawed and leaned.

When I held my whip correctly, keeping wrist straight and thumb up, the difference spoke for itself - a completely different response.

I'm ashamed to admit that up until today I have always held my whip in wrong way:o I don't normally carry one during a lesson, as Breeze usually strides out nicely. To get to my lessons I ride up to my instructors, which is about 2 miles, and on our way up today I really had to push her - which is why I carried one today, and am I glad I did! They say everything happens for a reason.

Anyway you carry your whip correctly 99% of the time, but on the photo where you say he's evading, look where it is.

I agree with the others about riding without stirrups to get you onto your bum and deepen your seat, but until your balance becomes a natural part of your riding you might find it easier to 'correct' yourself with ever so slightly shorter leathers, so that the weight of your foot keeps the stirrup iron across the ball of your foot, so when you feel your balance is being compromised you can stand up, and rebalance, then you haven't interfered with Bon's balance causing him to hollow, which then makes things harder for you.

One other thing is, (though I'm not totally sure, this will help just now) it might help you to shorten your riens by 3 or 4 cm, and slightly advance your elbows. Instead of having your elbows resting at the side of your waist, let them rest infront of, but into your waist. So that your contact remains the same, but your riens are shorter.

One of the biggest contributors in causing us to lean forward is pulling back on the riens. We pull our hands back into ourselves, and lean forward to accomodate our hands, our balance and rien contact go out the window, the horse hollows, evades and rushes forward, so we take our legs off and all is lost.

If you fix your elbows infront of your waist, pulling back isn't possible without you noticing. Our rien aids (as I know you already know) are given through our fingers, so if you have to pull back, the contact is too long. One gem my instructor told me (that helped me enormously, is) the upper arm, elbow to shoulder, belongs to the rider, lower arm, wrists and fingers belong to the horse. But the whole arm should be relaxed, unless you are 'talking' to the horse.

I have to add that Bon is absolutely gorgeous, and that though I know what you're going through just now is absolutely bloody frustrating - knowing how things 'should' be done, is a hell of alot easier than being able to 'do it'! Everyone of us offering advise has been in your sitution, and we're all still having lessons;) though they get easier in some respects, the lessons never end.

All the best with your show, I look forward to the photo's.

[KarinUS]

Nothing helpful to add other than thanks for posting the pics! After my last dressage show I have been going through a 'I hate myself for leaning forward after all these years, lessons, etc.' phase and am just glad to see I am not the only one... :D

[chev]

There is one quick excercise you can try to help with the seat thing. While you're walking him round, take your feet out the stirrups, draw your knees right up to his withers (bit like a jockey) and rock back on your seat bones a little. Then drop your legs straight back down again. You should end up feeling more balanced and sitting back on your seat again. Each time you feel you're becoming unbalanced, or that Bon is rushing, try it - quite often we tend to come up out of the saddle and lean forwards when we're tense, and re-establishing your position can help you relax too. First step in feeling relaxed is to adopt a relaxed position!

[Rosanna]

Maybe avoid using the school if it is very deep, because it will damage his tendons, it will also make his way if going seem worse, so dont worry too much!

Good luck at the show! Just have fun!

[Tootsie4U]

Originally posted by Dizzy


Anyway you carry your whip correctly 99% of the time, but on the photo where you say he's evading, look where it is.

Very interesting assessment Dizzy. Thanks for taking the time to explain. Very very interesting. :)

[Demson]

As you know you need to sit back and stay straight up but not like a steel pole.

You look rather tense and you have your arms locked. You need to relax the contact a bit and allow your arms to move forwards.
In some of the pics they are set too far back. Once you sit back more your rein positon will be better. Learn to breath to control the rhythm when in walk and to do the same in trot sit for that second longer before rising. It does work and it wil help you to relax. Your whole body from the head down looks so tense, probably because you know photo's are being taken and your trying too hard. You also tend to grip with your thighs as well which means you won't be sitting deep into the saddle and unable to use your weight effectively. Relax your thighs and your feet won't slip through the stirrups (don't forget to press your heels down slightly. your feet should always look level not with your toes pointing up as this tense's the leg.


You are also allowing your lower leg to drift back caused by leaning forward . This position makes it hard for your horse to maintain balance and thus frequently falls onto her shoulders.

She also tends to resist (shown by the ewe neck) I'd say keep to walk and trot work to establish your position and not lean so much.

I wouldn't have you sitting on your rear as this would cause you to slump your spine becoming heavy in the saddle.
You need to sit as though your sticking your bum out but not too much. It feels weird at first but then becomes the norm.

With reference to the pic when asking for left bend but getting right flexion and resistance. This is because of your position.

You inside leg is too far back and when applied instead of asking for bend you are actually pushing the quarters away. I can't see the outside leg clearly enough but I imagine because of your body position (and your right foot that I can see) that it is in the same place. Thus all you are asking is for her to go forwards. Then you bring your inside rein out asking for bend but instead you are confusing your horse.

You horse is not getting any signals from your leg to bend so she doesn't, when you ask with the rein she resists. All you would finally achieve is either a continous bend on the wrong flexion or if she did finally flex right it would have been through her neck and not through her body.

This eventually causes the neck muscles to over develop giving a permanent ewe neck or they develop more on one side of the neck than the other which gives you more work to correct. I am told an ewe neck can't be corrected. I may be wrong.

Make sure your movements are correct in walk and that you can maintain your position keeping your horse relaxed and seeking the contact keeping a regular rhythm and staying supple. You will find that your horse will mirror you. If your tense she will be.

"Phew" I daren't send in my pics


I have a bad habit of looking down and tightening my thigh. Big NO NO for me....

[Tootsie4U]

Good advise Alf. Blunt and to the point. Alot of the tipping though I think has to do with the footing. He's really bounding to lift out of it which throws me around a little. You are spot on though about the contact and leg aids.

He's very young, and quite green. He has always been very immune to pressures so teaching him leg aids is/was difficult. Do you have any tips on how to make him more light in that aspect? I have done the groundwork but need some extra help.