more cantering questions

[laura jeanne]

The instructor I started with this spring started me on the lunge line for canter- I was completely gripping with my knees and was a mess! Anyway, I finally got so that I can keep my weight in my heels and not grip with my knees.

I have been off the lunge line for a while now and we canter as part of each lesson. Last night my instructor said I was doing a good job- specifically good leg position, light seat in the saddle and following the horse, and light hands!!

However, I still don't feel in control or that I am relaxed at all. I tried to relax and sit in the saddle, but keeping in mind what Harry Hobbes told me about keeping your weight distributed between the stirrups, seat, and upper thighs, I'm confused about how to be relaxed and sitting in the saddle at the same time.

With my old instructor, I could ride the canter really well without stirrups but this instructor doesn't have us do that. (may have been the horse with a smooth canter also!)

So I think I had a "light seat" last night because I was really hardly sitting in the saddle at all. Is this the right way to ride the canter? It does not seem to go along with the advice about relax and have a deep seat!

I also seem to be able to steer (sort of) in canter but not regulate the speed. I guess maybe this will come with practice?

Thanks for any help y'all can give! (horrible Texan espression)

[Tootsie4U]

Originally posted by laura jeanne


So I think I had a "light seat" last night because I was really hardly sitting in the saddle at all.



Sounds like you were doing more of a two-point. If you ever get the chance to watch a "good" rider in canter, their back side is in constant contact with the saddle seat and you hardly see any "air" between them and the saddle. This, along with your classic 'ear-hip-heel" line will give you a correct canter seat.

Speaking in theory - I still haven't mastered it :D

[BackintheSaddle]

Sounds like instead of sitting "to" the canter, you were sitting "on" the canter, ie standing in your stirrups slightly to keep your bum off the saddle a little. Have you tried leaning back a bit? This helps you sit deep. Also, follow the horse with your hands as well as your seat. Outside rein to slow (squeeze, release), and try not to use too much inside leg if you don't need it. That is the sum total of my canter knowledge as I am just now learning how to canter in a controlled fashion as opposed to the mad dash on the forehand mess that I have been riding lately :)

[laura jeanne]

Tootsie,

That's the funny part. I actually looked like I was sitting because I kept just enough weight in the saddle to look like I was sitting. So there was no space between my seat and the saddle but really most of my weight was off the saddle.

[Tootsie4U]

I can't imagine that this would be a "correct" sit to the canter position. If no to little weight is on the saddle, then most of it must be falling down into your legs. To keep your seat off the saddle, means you'd have to be locking some part of your leg - like a polo rider or a modified two point position.

[galadriel]

Originally posted by laura jeanne
keeping in mind what Harry Hobbes told me about keeping your weight distributed between the stirrups, seat, and upper thighs, I'm confused about how to be relaxed and sitting in the saddle at the same time.

This isn't just in canter, this is all the time. Rather than sitting on top of the horse, like sitting in a chair with all your weight on the seat, sit AROUND the horse. Put your weight in your whole upper leg, from seatbone all the way down the thigh. Rest it all against the horse.

For comparison:
* If you standing in your stirrups, all your weight is in your stirrups.
* If you pull your legs off the horse, all your weight is in your seatbones.
* If you squeeze hard enough to bring your seat out of the saddle, then all your weight is in your legs and the stirrups.

Try to find a balance. Try to rest your weight across the whole area that's touching the horse.

This doesn't mean that you should try to sit "lightly" in the saddle, just that not ALL of your weight should be in your seat. Certainly some weight should be in your seat, and you should feel like your seatbones and thigh are sitting on the horse's back and ribcage.

[laura jeanne]

Thanks everyone, I think I don't really relax and sit on this horse because I have trouble slowing her down once she starts cantering.

As soon as I shorten the reins to get ready for cantering, she gets excited and wants to run off. I try to get her in a walk first, but when the others in the lesson are going faster, she doesn't want to pay attention to me.

I will see what happens this weekend and talk to my instructor about it. Thanks again for the advice.

[cvb]

I'm confused about how to be relaxed and sitting in the saddle at the same time.

Some thoughts for you

- have you ever sat on a rocking horse ? You are relaxed, but you are still moving and still sitting.....

- or how about a swing ? you relax, you swing, but being relaxed doesn't automatically mean you fall off !

I think it is worth making the difference between "relaxed" and "collapsed" - they are not the same thing ;) (BTW I have a skill for stating the obvious !)

When you are relaxed, you don't just turn into a spineless jelly - you are still engaging certain muscles, with "tone" rather than to create leverage and movement.

The two examples above are a little false as the person is creating the movement in a very distinct way, and I would hate to lead someone into trying this in canter. As a rider you can influence the horse - but this can be both postive and negative. If you try and "push" the horse like a swing, you will probably block the movement.

So a better analogy might be sitting on a swing where someone else is pushing - and you are just absorbing and influencing the swing. You can either enhance the swing, or reduce it, or just accept it, by how you use your body.

I think I don't really relax and sit on this horse because I have trouble slowing her down once she starts cantering.

This is interesting as actually you are in a much better position to influence your horse (to slow) if you ARE sitting. The less contact you have, the less influence. So you need to over-ride your instinct and sit, relax - and see what happens ;-)

I used an analogy on another post about handshakes - if someone gives a tense handshake with not a lot of contact, how does it make you feel ? what if it is a warm, calm, handshake with lots of contact ? Well your position on the horse is like one big handshake - what kind of handshake are you giving and what kind of result do you think it will have on the horse ?

[Tootsie4U]

GREAT analogy cvb. So when will your book be out? :D you really should put these down on paper!

[laura jeanne]

I do know what you mean about relaxing but not collapsing- I just need to do it! I do have good muscle tone from yoga and exercise.

I am pretty good a sitting trot if I can keep the horse collected and not just rushing off. I think that the reason I could canter the horses from my previous stable even without stirrups is because I could get them collected first and we did not canter very long at one time (very small arena).

Anyway, I am very very happy because I just started a lesson during the week after work in addition to saturdays. So now I don't have to wait all week counting the days til the weekend!!

[cvb]

Originally posted by Tootsie4U
GREAT analogy cvb. So when will your book be out? :D you really should put these down on paper!

you may jest - but I actually have a notebook for the ideas that bug me and won't stop bugging me til I write them down. So you have been warned ! I suspect my ability to communicate those ideas has improved thanks to NR though... (well thats my excuse for frequent visits !:D )

I'm also letting off some creative steam by doing stuff like clinic reports and so on. Have submitted a couple of things to magazines - but no one's bitten yet.

When I was off work, I actually wrote a book(let) based on "natural horsemanship" but about how the horse trains the rider. Just haven't got around to getting into a format to submit, and not worked out a sensible publisher to submit to.

[Tootsie4U]

"Knowing" you for awhile here on NR, I for one would certainly enjoy seeing it in print!

[lady ridealot]

, I think I don't really relax and sit on this horse because I have trouble slowing her down once she starts cantering.

Not quite as good with words as cvb!! :) But have you considered having an individual lesson to work on your cantering, many horses when in a group get excited and like to charge after the one in front and unfortunately this makes it more difficult for you to learn, if you just have a couple of lessons on this horse, or maybe on a different one for your own benifit, i find that in individuals the horse is much more responsive and much less distracted by the "herd!" So it would allow you to practice more cantering when the horse is listening a bit more! Good luck and happy riding! :)

[laura jeanne]

I have just watched a video of me cantering from Tuesday night. I am definitely leaning a little forward the whole time. It also looks like my horse is in a slow canter and yet when I am riding her, it feels like she is going very fast.

I also notice that my leg is not under my seat at the trot, but the middle of my foot is even with the girth. I thought I had that fixed but I guess I will have to start over with my position. Very discouraging. I will discuss this with my instructor. She has been telling me that my legs have improved since they stay fairly still, but what good is that if they are out of position? I am surprised because I told her when I started that I wanted to fix my horrible chair position.

Will have more video taken in two weeks.

Thanks for all your help everyone.

[cvb]

laura jeanne

just a thought - that the leaning forward and leg forward are linked ?

If you think it through - by leaning forward you effectively "unbalance" yourself. To re-balance you may be moving your leg forward ie it "mirrors" your upper body to stop you tipping. This is probably something you just to automatically to stop yourself tipping over and feeling insecure.

So - helping one should help both (the good news).

The "bad news" (if any) is that in making the adjustment you may go through a phase of feeling worse (less balanced, less secure etc) before you feel better. But if you're aware of that, then you can work through it :)

[laura jeanne]

cvb

I do realize that any change you make in your position will make everything feel different. I had a hard time learning to keep my leg back when I started with this teacher about 3 months ago. It is actually a lot further back than it was, but I can see that it is not back enough. Posting still does not feel really natural and I can see in the video that I am kind of forcing myself forward (not with the reins I promise) because my feet are too far forward. At least I am not actually standing up in the stirrups like it shows in my old videos from last year.

I am leaning forward mostly in canter. This is probably why she keeps telling me to shorten my reins! If I sat back a little more, they wouldn't be so long!

Maybe I need to make my stirrups longer. My horse is 16.1 hh and I am only 5 feet. (had to laugh when she told me to wrap my legs around the barrel - yeah, sure I will). With the stirrups a little longer, maybe I can put my leg down and back more. They are usually right at my ankle bone but I have pretty short legs!

I am going to show the video to my teacher and see what she thinks (altho she can see me in the lesson after all). I am hopeful tho because the students she has trained look awesome to me.

[kedwards]

If you are really anxious to improve your position, you may want to do some more longe lessons. They aren't just for beginners, but are a great way to get some intensive "position" work at any stage.

By the way, CVB, put me in line after Tootsie for your book.

[cvb]

By the way, CVB, put me in line after Tootsie for your book.

oo gosh - better get my act together then :confused:

did think about burning it on a CD, posting over, and getting Tootsie (and you - you just "volunteered" !) to review it for me ;)

But even thats quite scarey....

(must be brave, must be brave)

Local(ish) trainer has just announced she's off to NZ so it got me thinking about what I should be doing (she's selling her place). Plus the job here not being entirely... er... fulfilling ? motivating ? - pays the bills, but don't want to be here forever....