Lunging problems.

[Equisgurl]

* This is for somebody at another forum, since I dont know much about these things, I'm sure someone can offer more advice. Thanks:)

I'm working with a yearling colt...I'm getting him used to routine things. Batheing, funny objects to "despookify" him, etc... We've been trying to work on longeing lately, but rarely does he cooperate.

The problem is that he won't move out like most horses. He turns and faces me. He does this both in the round pen and on the line outside of the round pen. I'll keep my eyes locked on his eyes, my body aligned with his shoulder, longe whip pointed towards his hip. I never hit him with it, but I will crack it to get his attention and swoosh it around to try to get him moving. Doesn't work. He'll stand there or he'll face me. If he's on the grass, he'll try to start grazing (which is a no-no that we're working on breaking...). Because he absolutely WON'T budge, I've even had to get tough and just nick his hip with the end of the whip and even that won't get him moving. He just stands there.

Like I said, once in a while he'll do really well in the round pen...but that really is "once in a while." I feel like I'm doing things on HIS terms instead of my own...which obviously isn't good. It can't be what I'm doing because it works with the other horses. I'm just at a loss as to what to do.

Any suggestions?

::: Edit ::::

I know keeping my eyes on his is considered a "threat" in horse language, but it works to push them away and keep moving with the other horses, just as I've learned. However with Dusty, even dropping my eyes from his doesn't help.

[galadriel]

Well. I will start out by mentioning that lunging is a bit much for a baby. Both the amount of knowledge and focus it requires, and the amount of strain on the joints, are probably more than a yearling ought to be dealing with, or even a two-year-old.

This doesn't sound like a lack of cooperation. This sounds like ignorance. Has he been *taught* to go around in a circle? Has someone helped reinforce the lunging by leading him around the circle in order to help him see what he is supposed to be doing?

Horses don't automatically move away, no matter what your body language; if you are using "chase away" body language and *nothing else* as a method for lunging, then that horse is going to be trying to figure out what he's done wrong, and keep trying to come in to you to get forgiveness for whatever it is.

What foundation does this horse have for lunging? Does he have a solid grounding in vocal commands? If a horse is good with vocal commands, it should be possible to urge "walk...walk...walk" and get him to keep going, even when he wants to turn in and face you.

Trying to get a horse to move out away from you, it would make more sense to point the whip at his shoulder, and stand even with his hip. Get really behind him, and use your long long arm (lunge whip) to keep his body out & away from you.

But really, why would you be lunging a yearling?

[chev]

I'd agree with Galadriel that this yearling simply doesn't understand what's being asked of him. I'd also second the point that he is too young to be doing this kind of thing. The damage that could be done to his joints doesn't bear thinking about. Lunging is hard work for a horse - both in terms of the physical strain they are under but also the work they have to do to bend and balance on a circle. A yearling simply isn't developed enough to cope with it. So in addition to his possible confusion over what is being asked, there is also the strong possiblity that he isn't co-operating because physically it is just far too demanding.

If his owner really wants to do things with him there are plenty of other things she could be doing that won't put so much mental and physical strain on him. Lunging is't really what I'd call a routine thing - it's a training and/or excercise workout that requires a fair bit of strength and balance from the horse, and can irreparably damage the joints of youngsters. It's perfectly possible to both train and excercise without lunging. I'd call haltering, leading, loading, foot care and the like routine, really. I suppose my point is there is no reason why a horse should *have* to lunge.... and no horse should be lunged this young.

If this girl is looking for advice I'd say she needs to stop the round pen and lunge work for at least another year (and preferably two) and concentrate on basic handling, before her yearling either suffers physical problems or starts to resent work because he can't cope with what is being asked of him.

[Mehitabel]

what they said. 20 minutes liungeing is the equivalent to an hour's ridden schooling in terms of stress on the body - would you ride this horse for an hour? loose schooling/round penning is exactly the same - doesn't matter if there's a rope between you and the horse or not. it's forced exercise on a small circle and it will be damaging his legs as well as his mind.

bathing, leading, work led over obstacle things like poles on the floor, tarpaulins, bending through cones etc - all great mental stimulation for a baby.

lungeing - adult work and not appropriate.

[Equisgurl]

Thank you guys, I will pass this on to her.

[wildponies]

lunging a yearling.. oh dear.. no wonder he's not very cooperative

[MissMissy]

I know of many people who longe yearlings. No need to say "oh dear" or anything. :rolleyes:

This was my post on the other forum, and I think I need to make a few things clear.

I never longe him for more than 10-15 minutes at a time and we do this one or MAYBE two times a week. Yes, he knows how to longe. He has days where he goes perfectly and beautifully, but then he has days like yesterday where he just stands there and looks at me like he's confused on what to do. It probably IS something that I am or am not doing since at times he does go just fine.

Why am I longeing a yearling? To get him used to it and to get him used to voice commands. I never ask him to canter -- we do walking and trotting. Like I said, sessions are 10-15 min MAX, 1-2 times a week.

Thank you for all of the advice.

[Dizzy]

I know many people do lunge yearlings, but because they do, doesn't mean its ok. It puts enormous stress on thier bone structure, which normally only shows up when they are older.

All young bones need to be allowed to form and grow without without stress, if they are to support the animal (humans included) through a long and happy life. Horses bones mature from the hoof up over, a mature bone is one where the growth plates have closed. Without looking it up I can't give exact details of which bones have finished growing, but yearlings still have an enormous amount of growing to do. So it goes without saying that their bone structure should not be asked or forced to accept lunge work.

Because the youngster will do it, should never be an indicator, horses always try to please (on the brighter side of thinking) or flee the lunge whip in other cases.

In both cases, the horse does not have the intelligence to say 'I'm not doing this, because my body is not mature enough, and if I do, I'll probably end up experiencing alot of pain later in life, and depending on who owns at the time, I'll either recieve treatment and eventually end up being put down - or I'll be beaten and passed from pillar to post as a problem horse, then end up on the knacker mans wagon for slaughter.

When you own a young horse, you must realise that what you do with him/her either sets them up for life, or destroys thier chances of leading a happy, healthy and useful life. Its a huge responsibilty, and excuses like 'I know loads of folk who' is no excuse, especially now, you now know why you shouldn't. If you don't believe us, do a search on 'google' and read scientifically researched facts for yourself.

I know I've been blunt, I have seen 2 horses destroyed in thier early teens, both of which were had been treated for approx 2 years previous by the vet, (which was very expensive), one through arthrtitus in the lower leg, another because of a broken pastern/hoof angle both caused because of how they were handled/ridden and cared for as youngsters.

I now own a 4 yr old mare, that I have just restarted, but who was lunged, and backed at approx 18 months, her withers constantly twitch, which is not right, and in the 2 years I've owned her, I am now getting a second 'back person' out to check her on Thursday.

So it makes my blood boil, when I hear of folk abusing youngsters, I've been at the end result, and stood with them when they've been shot. If you want a horse old enough to work, sell your baby and buy one thats old enough. But please don't kid yourself into thinking that what you're doing is right.

At the end of the day, the only person your horse has on his side is you - please, please, please have his best interests at heart, and look after him.

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Dizzy
It puts enormous stress on thier bone structure, which normally only shows up when they are older.

You know, you can compare this to child gymnasts (or figure skaters, or ballet dancers, etc). More people may be familiar with this concept--or fewer people, maybe I just know this because I know way too many random bits of trivia.

Children who practice & practice and compete, at a young age, put a lot of extra stress on their joints. Their bones are still growing, their muscles, tendons, and ligaments are still developing. It won't show up immediately; it won't show up for a while. But when these people get to their twenties or even late teens, they find that they have damaged their bodies beyond repair.

This isn't just something that people have seen in horses; this is a concern for all young creatures. There's likely a lot more information out there about children & overuse of their joints at a young age.

[MissMissy]

Originally posted by Dizzy
So it makes my blood boil, when I hear of folk abusing youngsters, I've been at the end result, and stood with them when they've been shot. If you want a horse old enough to work, sell your baby and buy one thats old enough. But please don't kid yourself into thinking that what you're doing is right.

At the end of the day, the only person your horse has on his side is you - please, please, please have his best interests at heart, and look after him. [/B]

You're suggesting I'm abusing him? :eek:

He's not my horse -- I'm working with him as a favor to his owners.

Thanks for the advice.

[chev]

Originally posted by MissMissy
I know of many people who longe yearlings. No need to say "oh dear" or anything. :rolleyes:

This was my post on the other forum, and I think I need to make a few things clear.

I never longe him for more than 10-15 minutes at a time and we do this one or MAYBE two times a week. Yes, he knows how to longe. He has days where he goes perfectly and beautifully, but then he has days like yesterday where he just stands there and looks at me like he's confused on what to do. It probably IS something that I am or am not doing since at times he does go just fine.

Why am I longeing a yearling? To get him used to it and to get him used to voice commands. I never ask him to canter -- we do walking and trotting. Like I said, sessions are 10-15 min MAX, 1-2 times a week.

Thank you for all of the advice.


10 - 15 minutes is a long time. It's more than enough time to cause damage, especially if you're doing this once or twice every week. Why on earth do you feel he needs to get used to lunging at this age? I've backed and trained horses without ever lunging them - they've had no problems at all. I certainly never felt the need to 'get them used' to lunging at this kind of stage.

There are plenty of ways to teach voice commands without lunging. I'm assuming they are 'walk', 'trot', and 'halt', from what you've said? Which can all be taught with probably greater success by working in-hand. My yearling colt knows all three commands - and all he's ever done is lead in-hand.

My colt has been haltered, led, and groomed. He's been handled daily but not 'trained' as such. He is happy enough and obediant enough that while we were at the field the other day my husband sat our twelve month old baby on his back (colt not haltered at this point, and hubby taking most of baby's weight it has to be said). He didn't even blink. Just goes to show the level of trust and acceptance that can be achieved by letting babies be babies, and doing no more than the basics with them.

I know of many people who tie foals to posts and let them throw themselves on the floor in panic until they're too tired to fight any more to teach them to tie up. The fact that I know people who do that doesn't mean it's the best thing for the foal, or the best way to go about training, or that I will blindly follow and do the same.

Yes, there is a need for 'oh dear'.

[Mehitabel]

10-15 minutes lungeing is the equivalent on his body to half an hour-45 minutes ridden schooling. would you argue he's mature enough for that?

[ponynuts]

I used to own a young horse. I bought her when she was a yearling and did not start to lunge her until she was three. Even then it was for about fifteen minutes and was just to get her used to carrying a saddle and then carry a rider. Up until then I just handled her, such as grooming and leading. It was when I led her I taught her voice commands. I also used to lead her along quiet roads to get her used to cars. This was by no means work, but just to get her used to being handled so that when she was older and time to be ridden she would realise that I wasnt going to hurt her and that the whole process would be easier. When my horse was a yearling I just brought her in to get fed and groomed.
I would not work a young horse they should be left to be babies, just because other people do, it doesnt mean that it is correct. If you know people who work their young horses, I know loads of people who dont.

[charlotte+jill!]

i wld not personally lunge a yearling. thats just me tho everyone has different things they do. i just wonder have u tried long reinin??? i wld start wit that first and build up to lunging. dont b to downhearted even my 11yr old is funny bout lunging when she feels like it!! lol

[Dizzy]

I'm sorry if it shocks you - but yes I do think you're abusing him.

A yearling is not physically or mentally developed enough to work on the lunge.

Apologies if I sound harsh, but there isn't anyway to dress up the facts.