Moody Horse.What do I do.

[FRED]

Hi,I wonder if you could give some advice when riding a moody horse,my favourite is a 16 h black cob type and very stong, she has a habit of bending her rear too block another horse from passing,she is not too bad when trotting or in canter{she can get a little worked up},but when walking she really does 'bend',I have recently tried placing my outside foot just behind the girth, resting it on her side,it has helped a bit. I could not do this when troting or cantering.
{the staff have been trying to coach her some better manners}I don't carry a whip,and would prefer not to,the staff do carry them, and use them more like a magic wond than a whip.We ride in the great outdoors and I tend to hold the reins to much on the light side.
What do you think,best regards from Fred
ps:she is not a Chestnut

[Sharon H]

Hi Fred, she sounds like a typical 'dominant mare' to me. Is she the leader of the herd when they're out in the field? I'll bet she is! I used to own a mare like this, she would not let anyone go in front of her, not only did she swing her quarters out, she used to bite them as well! It's natural horse behaviour, although I can see the difficulties it's causing you. If she's not your horse then the things you can do about it are bound to be a bit limited. How long has she been used for school work? The thing I would try would be to teach her some lateral movements and use either shoulder in or quarters out when the others are trying to go past you but whoever is responsible for the mare's schooling will probably have to do that bit for you if you are only riding her in a lesson. You could try taking up a slightly stronger contact and asking for a bit of leg yield as they come past, giving her something else to think about as they go past might distract her for long enough. It's difficult to advise you when I don't know what level of schooling she has.

[Outrider]

Request that when people are coming up on you that you don't realize, to tell you they are coming. I guarantee the horse knows where they are well before you do. Then use your leg to move the horse laterally away from the horse or horses that are passing. Practice with this horse also in a group setting like a trail ride, keeping her at the back of the group as you go forward. She will try to take the lead, but don't let her. The more you do this the more she will think of you as the dominant herd leader. Happy Trails!

[FRED]

Hi Sharon & Tim,I'm afraid it never entered my mind how well she is schooled{I should have,reading Pedros stories} I will politely ask the staff.Clearly by her behaviour she is well up in the pecking order and can be a bully,but this is all new too me,so I could not be sure what her rank is in the herd,but none of the other horses have a go at her from what ive seen.
Tim you are so right about she knows well before me that she is going to be overtaken,I have learnt from her ear movements when to get ready,she seems to know which horse is approaching from way back and really does take exception to most,I have avoided cantering on her for now because I realize she is too strong for me and could take advantage
of my light steering.I will be working on this.
Thanks for the ideas and advice.I will be missing this weekend, I'm nursing some bad bruises after some idiot giving me a lift across some fields drove to fast and lost control of his bosses Range rover,it went on its side but fortunately came back down on the wheels,I would love to be a fly on the wall when his boss gets back from holidaying :mad: best regards from Fred.

[jillaroo]

Good grief Fred! You're bloody lucky that bruises are all you have after that accident! Hope you heal and are back in the saddle soon.

[Jo]

Hi Fred

She does indeed sound like a typical mare - and a black cob too! There's a cobxtb mare where I ride and she is fine as long as she is in front. If ridden behind, it has to be by the instructor and even then she usually proceeds in half-pass all the way! She will try to bite the horse in front in the school arena.

My mare is a black welsh cob and she's strong and moody. She makes the most aggressive faces at any horse overtaking her, but is not truly happy in the front. She's fine as long as everything goes out in the order they set out - no overtaking allowed! In the school, she is fine as long as nothing comes too close. If it does, God help it! And yes, she's the boss of her field - so I guess the behaviour goes with the territory.

Hey, four legs are still safer than 4 wheels sometimes!

[FRED]

Hi Jillaroo & Jo,I was daft not to be wearing a seat belt, but never thought we would be going so fast considering how bad the fields are,I wonder sometimes if I can trust anybody,i'm lucky not to have a broken leg and the idiot driver a broken nose..

I guess you have sussed out madam Sophie,she is very special in my eyes, last time we went riding she gave me the old eagle eye look back at the yard as though a sergeant inspecting one of his squaddies{sorry em, her squaddies,those liquid eyes {I nicked this saying from Moossy}its a very fitting description.We have done some great half passes,not planed of corse and a little crow dancing {as Outrider would put it,I think this is what he means anyway}I will just keep taking it steady,but have learnt that a horse likes a leader,but only just,it seems to be a very fine balance.
bye.

[Outrider]

When a horse kind of lightly bucks, we call it crow HOPPING not dancing! I had to laugh my buns off over that one! I still am! The relationship we develop with a horse is very special and you seem to be getting along fine with yours. Wear your seatbelt next time you ride with someone pardner. We would hate to lose you from this board! If you have to have a wreck, do it on horseback! It makes for a much better tale! Happy Trails and Happy Landings Fred!

[FRED]

em,embarrased,I will remember in future,though its given me a laugh as well,its a good job I never said anything at the yard,oh and sorry Mossy for the spelling mistake.

[sallym]

It perfectly describes Madame's behaviour at times! Sort of the little bucks plus a bit of dancing around in between.

Best wishes

Sally

[FRED]

Hope you don't mind this question?:
you would not happen to be that pretty fair haired lady
who once said when I was, em ,a bit late for the very wet
evening trekk late last summer,"Fred !!, I have very little patience,I'm going to have to improve your rising trot quickly, so that we can catch the others up ! " despite all that rain I really enjoyed that evening,and my rising trot,
well,I did very well.If you are Sally,what happened to all those guys that evening,I never did see any come back,my leg is improving,so see you all soon.
bye
ps:crow dancing:its very fitting, eh.

[FRED]

Hi all,well today I discovered Sophie is not the best school horse,though she behaved like a true lady should in the school ring{not wanting to be controversial..if you know what I mean}She can be very stubborn and lazy,but is very special in my eyes and has taught me much about horse behaviour.I think she is like many horses at the moment, fed up and missing her weekly trekks and the great out doors,its a shame to see such fit horses suddenly limited to yards,I'm genuinely sorry for you all.
I will keep at it,I would hate {never}change to another place, as the staff have been brilliant and their horses are very good overhaul and the trainer is trying sooo hard,I may try another horse next week.
One day Outrider your signature will become reality for me.
Best regards from Fred
ps:the staff tried to get her to jump a fence,she looked at it and then simply walked round it and stood the other side to the riders astonishment,I know we should not laugh,but it gave all the staff the giggles,and its nice to see during these hard times for riding centres that people retain a sense of humour.
best regards from Fred

[floppy]

I ahve an opposite probelm before 'my' hrose was good but onf riday whil ei was out riding with a friend on my hroses buddy another horse came up behind us and walked straight past us and my hrose decided to perk up her wlak and try and speed walk after the other horse...she was completley ignoring all my aids to make her stop or even just to bring her into a circel for abit until the horse was out of sight...in the nd my friend had to walk infront of me and stop and then my hrose stopped too...oh horses can be a pain i the bum sometiems :)

[floppy]

ehm that last repsonce was to a psot that fre dposted about the hrose blocking other horses.. :)

[FRED]

Hi floppy,it is interesting finding out about horse behaviour,not just through books.
to be honest I thought all you had too do was get on and learn to ride,I used to wonder what on earth all those ear movements were about,well now I have a good idea.I have learnt that some horses are a lot more inteligent than we would give them credit for, and suss the rider out, well me any way,they certainly have a sense of humour too,whats the point in doing a circle when I know a short cut is Sophie's attitude,figure of eight,she knows a good short cut for that,and is so proud to be in front again,should we condem a horse for being smart and having a strong will,there is a difference between poor discipline and being smart,especialy when the horse is safe and looks after the rider,well I guess reading this would make many a trainer sigh,but it is not always like this,but you have to try and see it from the other side to understand why a horse behaves not as we would wish,whats the point in wacking an inteligent horse,I know how I would feel.Sophie would probably be usless in the show ring,but out on a hack she can come into her own world,from what I can gather, riding takes many years to master and as for the horse,well who wants a robot.
Best regards from Fred

[sallym]

Sorry, I'm not fair haired or pretty so I think this must be a case of mistaken identity. Neither would I dream of criticising your trot!

I have just taken up lessons myself (after nearly 30 years of riding!) because of the limited riding I can do at the moment due to F&M, and I am riding a very different horse from my own Fat Girl. I'm finding Riley's trot absolutely huge and difficult to sit and rise to! I have sore bits that I didn't know I had!

Best wishes

Sally

[floppy]

fred,
no one wants a robot..but the reaction of my horse last week was somethign out of the blue..she never use to do it!<when riding out with her companion>...the thing is when im out riding with other people i dont appreciate my horse deciding to follow some stranger that has just ridden past...and wasnt out riding with us...the reason i dont fidn this acceptable is because she has a habbit of when riding out alone to try and gallop at full pelt to any horse she may see in the distance and im trying to prevent this...mainly because it is a danger...especailly as alot of people take their dogs out walkign where all the palces to ride are...and so if i allow my horse to do what she did in walk last week and allow her to get away with it she will think its ok and that doesnt help me with her hacking out alone..and i tend to use strong legs aids...not sharp jabs in the ribs and if she doesnt listen then i back it up with my whip...but i use the whip on my leg not on the hrose and she listens...especailly with the use of a strong tone of voice!also my hrose is only 6 and hasnt had very good training prior to purchasing. So she is still green and needs to learn what is and what isnt acceptable!
other than that she is an angel :D ..most of the time...i have beenr iding for about 17yrs but only 8 of those were spent having lessons..im learnig new things all the time..you can never stop learning!but you can't learn all you need to know from books i agree...its only been the past 4 yrs i have actaully read books about riding...
:) regards, floppy

[Edited by floppy on 12th Mar 2001 at 11:13 PM]

[Sharon H]

Dear Fred, I must say that with an attitude like yours you may never win an Olympic medal, but you will surely end up having the type of relationship with horses that a lot of people would give their right arm to achieve!

[Outrider]

Sharon has my thoughts again Fred. Sharon are you reading my mind or are we just in tune with each other? :)

Fred, you are doing well. Remember, a horse can see almost 360 degrees from the placement of the eyes on the head. That's why she knows when others are about to overtake her. It is good that you are learning to watch her ears to signal you. You are learning my friend, and the learning will never stop as long as you are involved with horses. You said that one day my signature will become reality for you. Don't look now pard, but that day is closer than you think.:) If you ever get to Texas, look me up! I'd be proud to ride with you! Happy Trails!

[Old Grey Mare]

Fred: I understand your affection for your challenging mare. Recently I went to a lesson to ride my regular, a gelding by the name of Bonco. He made himself unavailable by refusing to be caught. My instructor was a bit red-faced about this: he had arranged to keep Bonco in his stall until I got there, since he can be nortoriously hard to catch, but someone forgot and put him out.

So instead, I was put aboard "Missy", a cute little mare with the most sensitive eyes. But Missy is often referred to as "****y Missy"..she goes willingly, has a lovely trot, and smooth as glass canter, but boy does she toss her pretty little head. In the words of my instructor, she likes a lot of rein (slack in the rein) and will fuss to get it if she feels she's not getting the headroom she likes. Ross told me that's the thorn on this rose. As annoying as her habit can be, she is actually fun to ride. She's 22, but you'd never know it. She has a lively, speedy trot and her transitions into canter are lovely. I do feel like I'm flying on her.

I've found in horses and dogs..and forgive me, but in some men, that there are some common features. The guys tend to be easy to read, easy going, and more mischievious than naugthy. The girls on the other hand, tend to be very competent, less emotional about getting the job done, but don't cross them on some things. My female sheltie is like that. She is cute as a button, elegant, but fierce as all get-out if she feels someone's overstepped their bounds. (She's killed two beepers..she thought they were impudent) and has not hesitated to go after Goldens, pit bulls, and Anatolian Shepherds when they got too familiar with her.

Don't mean to start a battle of the sexes..I never believed in these things until I had a number of critters and friends who fit the stereotypes I outline here. Of course there are exceptions..but I do find it amusing how some things just seem to be hardwired in us all.

[Outrider]

So guys are "easy to read, easy going, and more mischievious than naugthy", hmmm? I find your stereotype of men to be.... absolutely true! Except for one thing in my case. I'm cheap, but I'm NOT easy! :) (Well, maybe a little easy!) OK, OK, I admit it...I'm easy AND cheap! And also mischieviously naughty! ;) Are you happy now? LOL :)

[Peace]

Fred, I'm inspired by your post. I've been forced, due to a combination of car wreck and first year of law school (and there's not much difference between the two, some days) to take a break from riding, but when I start back, I'm going to insist on a school that teaches communication and cooperation instead of dominance.

I, too, was taught the value of this philosophy by a bossy old mare. Her method was to scare the bejesus out of you on the ground, by pretending she would bite, kick, or stomp on you, and then growl at you when you got into the saddle. Once she had your attention in this way, she'd "reward" good riding by doing what you asked. Bad riding resulted in a deep sigh and a complete halt. (Very bad riding caused her to snatch the bit and sail over the nearest jump, but I never personally experienced that maneuver.) And she was quite the problem-solver. When I had difficulty getting in sync with her at the trot, she started bobbing her head up and down in time to her steps. All I had to do was rise to the trot in time with her head rhythmn! Once I "got it", she stopped nodding and away we went!

I would never have dreamed of correcting her for any of her behaviors - she proved she knew way more about riding than I did!

[FRED]

Its so helpfull being able to share.
Salym, hope I caused no embarrassment,your horse sounds soooo like madam,I should be on Brode this weekend,he's massive,great to see you are taking lessons,I'm no oil painting,found out the hard way beauty is only...thats life
sigh..good luck with your training

floppy,sounds like you live in a beautifull place,hardly any cars and runaway carts!,good luck with your horse.
ps:I don't object to crops and whips,used properly,seen some pretty awfull use of them though, shamefull, Captin Blythe would have been proud to have said sc** bags on his ship,call them selves experienced riders too.

Hi Sharon,I have noo ambition to be Eddie the Eagle of the equestrian world,honest, do you remember that crazy olympic ski jumper,I will just watch and dream,I doubt the show world is ready for me,but if dreams could come true,i would be there,great sport,bye

Tim,if I ever get to Texas,thanks,I would let you know.Shame there are so few males riding,just don't know what they are missing,thanks for the encouragement,I must say it was Wally who gave some good advice on the subject 'ears'I was till then, completly at a loss and miss understood anger,she puts things so well.

Old Grey Mare,mischievous mmm, well yes,but with five sisters,yep I agree ,never get a woman cross,you would not believe what they used to do to us lads,no I'm not telling,
its to horrible...Still,the old spider trick in the bathroom always worked a treat,help,help.....scream....ha ha {Sorry}
Easy going,true,but I'm very good in a crisis and under pressure {ooo}.Best wishes from me,seeya

Peace,thanks for that,I have often wondered if I'm doing
doing right learning this way,and riding a 'bossy mare' too,I always ask myself questions,why is the horse doing this or that and ask questions of myself,If I had one wish for myself,it would be to have started riding sooner,just so much to learn. Daily life,it can beat us up many times in a life time,fun horses are a great medicine,a privelige to be with,best of luck with your studies and recovery
best wishes from Fred

[floppy]

:) what a nice post fred..

i always believed that there were so many few male riders...but since moving to germany at the yard where i work there are quite alot of male riders...and yeh..where i live is brilliant for riding...all mountains/bog hills..lots of woodland...looks of fieldland..looks of country tracks...im just not looking forward to spring because it means ihave to go to the docs and get my tick and mosquito jabs so i can ride without worry :( ouch

[Peace]

Fred,

I know what you mean, about styles of learning. My roommate at school (who was very successful in hunter-jumper) believes in the dominance method. She has dire predictions of how I'll be taken advantage of by unethical equines. But in all honesty, my bossy old schoolmistress only "acted up" as a teaching tool. I would have as soon corrected her as I would one of my professors at law school, who don't always behave as I would like either! Of course, I realize not all horses are schoolteachers, but I'll worry about handling them once I develop enough skill to ride them!

It's a shame there are so few men on horseback nowadays. I have two little nephews here on the farm, and my plan for ensuring their future success with the opposite sex is to teach them both how to ride and to dance!

[Edited by Peace on 17th Mar 2001 at 05:03 PM]

[FRED]

Hi all,I was back on Sophie today,she certainly has attitude,I managed to get her eventualy to trot over the poles,{very impresed with the both of us}then she started her horsey games. Brodie who ive been riding for the last three weeks would make nearly two of Sophie,but size means nothing to Sophie and her little bending games,our trainer is great and understands her little manners,so she lets us get away with more than we should,so long as we don't disrupt the lesson, at least I have learnt how to cope and what to do,I don't need force either.I doubt this sort of lesson is in any training manual.

Peace,good luck with getting your nephews dancing,I think you will need it
best regards from Fred.