FOA Outrider.

[Sharon H]

Dear Outrider, in your opinion, is it possible for a horse to be taught both western and english styles of riding? I have a five year old welsh cob and I am finding myself attracted to having a go at western but I don't want to confuse him too much! (I think what mainly atracts me is the comfy western saddles!)I'm really only interested in what you would call trail riding, I'm not aiming at lassoeing anything! Could you recommend any good books or websites that might give me some pointers? Thanks in advance, Sharon.

[Outrider]

Thanks for asking! Yes, it is quite possible for a horse to be trained in both english and western riding. It is a bit difficult if you are going to show him in both disiplines, depending on the classes of course, as I have seen horses that were normally ridden western make great jumpers and horses that were normally ridden english turn into great western pleasure horses. If you don't show, then trail riding is the same as hacking as the folks across the pond call it. The only difference for you will be the tack you use. Leg aids are mostly the same, but your hands are used differently in western riding. Usually you ride with either one piece short cutting/roping reins or long two piece reins. The bottom line here is that you usually ride with one hand on the reins and the other on the thigh or hanging down the side. Also, if you do ride one handed on an english horse that is used to you pulling each rein to turn a specific way, you might want to teach him to neck rein. Otherwise one handed reining will be hard to do.

The western saddle is comfortable and has a lot of security built in with more leather, fenders and not to mention the horn. Now if you want the best of both worlds, try an Australian stock saddle with a horn. It gives you the contact of an engish saddle with the horn and security of a western saddle, as it has swells for the thighs up front. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask or email me at cowboy_21@hotmail.com anytime. Happy Western Trails! Ah...at last a convert!

[Outrider]

Sorry. You also asked about web sites. Just do a search for John Lyons, Pat Parelli or western riding in general and you should find all kinds of sites that could be helpful. Let me know how you fare! Happy Trails Sharon!

[horselover]

I have rode many horses who are trained in both western and english riding. It's wonderful because you can pick the style of riding that suits your mood. In addition to the difference in reins, there is also a difference in the speed of the gaits. Western pleasure riding is much slower than English.

Some horses are quite able to school both disciplines, and some aren't. Rascal, the horse I ride for lessons, hates western. HE's not good at it, and he gets grouchy when you put a western saddle on him. He has jumping in his blood, and will never make a good western pleasure horse, or for that matter, even a decent one! :)

Just a note- If you plan to show both disciplines however, I would not recommend showing both english and western on the same day. The horse gets confused because the speed of the gaits and the way they should move is different. Judges often mark down when they see the same horse being ridden both western and english. As I know a judge, and she told me this "inside info," I wouldn't recommend doing it.

[Sharon H]

Thanks for that, I tend to ride mainly onehanded anyway as I've usually got a fag in the other one! (I suppose I should say cigarette to you guys, as I think the word fag has other connotations in the USA) To some extent all the horses I've had have ended up doing neckreining, I would be interested to know how to teach them properly. I've really no intention of showing Henry in anything, so I guess it doesn't really matter too much from what you say. I just aim to end up with a horse I can enjoy riding. I used to be a fairly good rider but I've spent the last 15 years driving a Shetland pony, so my riding skills leave a lot to be desired, to say the least! I think there are quite a few places that teach western over here so maybe I should get off my bum and do some looking around. Once again, thanks for the info.

[jillaroo]

Hi Sharon,
Where I have my lessons all of the horses that are used for beginner classes are trained in both western and English, and they do a pretty good job of teaching the riders how to ride (in either style).

[Outrider]

Its not too tough to teach most horses to neck rein. You will start out plow reining in the early stages. When you want a horse to turn, lets say left, begin by laying the right rein against the neck about 3/4 up the neck towards the head. At the same time, gently pull on the left rein and push with your right leg. Do the opposite for turning right. Repitition is the key here. Once you have him pretty repsonsive to this, turning both ways, (keep in mind it may take a day or two) try it with one hand laying the rein against the opposite neck and using the opposite leg. Left turn, right rein against right side of neck and pressure from right leg. As he gets this down, increase your leg pressure and make the turn faster...such as, leg, rein, turn. As the responses get better and better, bring the reins down the neck to about midway or lower. The closer you can get to the saddle horn the better. Let me know how you come out. And quit smoking! Its not good for your horse! lol Happy Trails!

[Sharon H]

I've just spotted that one of our local riding schools is having a western teacher join their staff! They are having a 'come and have a go night' next week and the guy will be teaching on Thursdays from then on. Guess where I'll be next Thursday?

[Outrider]

Let me know if I can help you in any way or if you have any questions that he can't answer. Or any you don't want to ask in front of everyone else, who, I have no doubt, all want to ask the same thing too! Happy Trails! I think you will like Western!

[sallym]

Do keep us posted. I would love to know how you get on with Western. I also ride semi-Western I think, generally with loose reins (because my horse prefers it) and often one-handed, and with long legs too. This is just my natural way as I never had many lessons to tell me how to do it properly.

Good luck

Sally

PS Don't tell Outrider, but I do have the odd ciggie on board too!

[Gulliver]

Actually, I was thinking for my first horse, to get one trained in both English and Western, as I really dont want to be in very many shows... And my mom thinks I should ride english because of its "discipline" and I like it alot, but I also dont want to never do western. So, I'm going to try to "accidentally" get a horse trained in both... HeeHeeHee!

[Outrider]

And to do them well. There are different cues and different reining techniques that will confuse a horse. Neck reining vs directional reining(plow reining, we call it) is just one example. If you are going to show, I would choose one disipline for that horse and get another horse for the other disipline. As for the cigs gals, I know one guy who had a saddle made with a leather cigarette box built in! If bucking doesn't kill you, those things will! Happy Trails!

[Sharon H]

The only problem with having your cigarettes attatched to the saddle is, when you fall off and the horse disappears from view, so do your fags! I like to keep mine close by me for just such an emergency. Seriously, I would like to have a go. There are quite a lot of western enthusiasts in my area and as I said before, I'm not aiming to compete in anything, I just want to have some nice comfy rides. I've always ridden with very long stirrups, everyone who has ever got on to one of my horses has had to put the stirrups up even when they've been taller than me. I'll let you know how I get on. Do you have to have a western saddle? I was going to buy one of Heathers saddles shortly and I haven't got much more room left in my under-the-stairs tack room, not to mention severe lack of hard cash. Still, there's always the good old credit card I suppose. The thing is, I don't know anything about fitting a western saddle.

[Outrider]

Maybe the horse is doing you a favor and trying to tell you that cigarettes aren't good for you, so he is stealing them? Horses have funny ways of taking care of us don't they?!!

You asked if you have to have a western saddle, and I suppose the answer is no. However, there are things that do require a specific saddle. For example, I wouldn't want to j jump in a western saddle with the horn sticking me in the belly, and I also wouldn't want to try cutting or reining in an english saddle that didn't have a horn! You wouldn't be there very long if you have a trained cutter or reiner under you! Happy Trails!

[Sharon H]

OK, what are cutting and reining? I presume that cutting is where you try and 'cut' a cow out of the herd? Reining, I've no idea at all! I can't see myself ever wanting to do that, we don't have any cows!

[Allie]

I've never done reining, but this is my understanding of it:

Reining is sort of the western equivalent of dressage. The horse goes through a pattern of moves such as he would use when working cows - rollbacks, sliding stops, stuff like that, as well as your typical canter circles and such. They are judged on how well they execute the pattern, and on the individual moves.

Allie

[Sharon H]

Oh noooooooooo! What's a rollback? If I have to get off and roll about in the mud, I'm not doing it lol! Same goes for sliding stops, though I guess that's like those spectacular stops that the cowboys always seem to do on the films is it?

[horselover]

I used to ride western, but switched to english b/c I got bored doing western flat. But the two things i enjoy most about westren riding are barrel racing and reining. It's really spectacular to watch top reiners and barrel racers- they are amazing!!!

I would hesitate to compare reining to dressage, especially since there IS such a thing as westren dressage that is very simiar to english dressage. But Allie is correct in saying that the horse and rider go through particular moves that mimic chasing after and catching a cow.

I went to a horse camp when i was a teen, and my instructor was a top reiner and trainer of reining horse- Chuck Swain. He would take one of the camp horses, and by the end of the week , he would have the horse doing left and right spins, sliding stops, and rollbacks (which are a 180 degree change in direction). It was amazing to watch.

He taught us how to train the horses to do this, emphasizing that it is simply the use of your hands and sest. Somehow, though, the horses we worked with never did as well as the one Chuck worked with :)

If you want to see some of the moves, here is a link to a site that has three video clips- one of a right spin, a left spin, and a sliding stop. Check them out sometime! If you watch closely, you will see that the rider moves the reins to tell the horse what to do, and a good reiningorse responds immediately. This is very evident in the sliding stop followed by the back.

http://www.calreining.com/video.html

[Outrider]

A roll back is a manuever that brings the horse to a sliding stop from a canter and then the horse does a 180 roll back and moves out at a canter again in the direction he was coming from the first time. He spins on the rear legs and jumps out to a canter. If you don't have a deep seat and a saddle horn, you won't be there long! Happy Trails!

[Sharon H]

Blimey, I can't see Henry doing that, he's far too idle! It's just as well because I think you're right, I'd be on the ground halfway through! By the way, I see you keep recommending Australian Stock saddles, can you tell me a good place to look for one? I put it into a search engine and found a site in Australia but they seemed to have loads of different types, so I was none the wiser when I'd finished. Do you know if anyone makes synthetic ones? I don't mind paying £2-300 for one but I don't really want to part with nearly a grand for a leather one if I then decide I don't like it. I have formed the impression that the fit of a western saddle is not quite as crucial as it is with english ones, is that correct?

[Edited by Sharon H on 26th Feb 2001 at 02:59 PM]

[Outrider]

I would guess the easiest place to check on Stock saddles would be Stateline tack at http://www.statelinetack.com. I don't think they make them in a synthetic version, but not sure. As for western saddle fit, it is very critical for a western saddle to fit properly just as it is for an english saddle. Especially in the withers area. If you have a western saddle that has bars in it that pich the withers, you won't have a happy horse I guarantee! I like Aussie Stock saddles becuase the come in two versions...with and without a horn. I like the horn model myself. Happy Trails!