Hackamore Help Needed

[shandy84]

It has been suggested by a number of people I try Shandy in a Hackamore as she is very resistent of the bit (back, teeth etc checked recently) and even after trying a number of bits her reaction is the same - her head becomes the same shape as a giraffe.

I know that it can be very severe in bad hands, I have light hands but would like advice on what to do and what not to do with it.

Any personal insights would be really helpful

cheers
Shandy

[cvb]

severity depends a lot on the hackamore e.g. english hackamore tends to have shorter shanks than german. But also what kind of chain/strap is used under the jaw.

There are other options e.g. a scawbrigg, or one of the newer design bitless bridles (which cross over under the jaw). Not sure where your location is - if you're USA, you could look at something in the sidepull line ? i.e. more on the western style hackamores....

[Mehitabel]

your steerign may well be a bit more wobbly, especially given she's young and used to a bit,so be extra clear and make sure to use seat and legs too, to help her as much as possible. of course you should anyway,. but doubly important in a hackamore.

also if you can, ride in an enclosed space first and practice stopping and steering - then if she objects to the poll pressure or feels claustrophobic when it tightens round her head then you're relatively safe. as it acts on poll, nose and chin, they can sometimes go 'yikes' when it comes into play for the first time. (actual hackamore there though - not applicable to sidepulls/scawbrigs.)

[cvb]

you should also bear in mind that constant pressure e.g. a "contact" in a hackamore could make the chin area go numb (like if you press on the same area for a long time). SO you do need to be a bit careful and almost ride a bit more western than english.

but do tell us wish kind of hackamore you mean, then we can help a bit more.....

[Zipperdee]

I ride all my horses in hackamores at some stage as I do believe it is a natural way to ride.

You must have an independant seat to get the most out of a hackamore and I would suggest that you invest in a couple of lessons with a trainer that "knows" hackamores when you first start.

You should start with an English hackamore as it is less severe than a German hackamore (though I prefer GH I would always go down this route first).

Can you turn, slow, speed up your horse using your seat only at the mo? If not then work on that and also teach your horse voice commands as it can really help (whoa, t-rot, walk on, etc). Working with your horse on the lunge can help teach him these things.

Never snatch at a hackamore, but ride with a light even pressure. Always engage your seat before your hands. Remember how a hackamore works (poll pressure and nose pressure) and be sympathetic.

It is paramount that it is fitted correctly so ensure the advice of someone who knows what they are doing - you may find that you need shorter cheek pieces than you have now.

If you want more advice then let me know!

[Showjumper]

If she's resisting the bit, why not try her in a crosspull or sidepull instead of a hackamore?

Is she teething at the moment? Or do her teeth need rasping?

[charlotte+jill!]

i wondered if you have tried a sweet iron bit??

its just that my mare was the same when i got her, head up like a giraffe! very resistant sumtimes even grabbin at the bit, and sumtimes a lil strong when jumping xc which wasnt great as her head was up in the air! so i tried a sweet iron snaffle and all this went! i was so please and now i can even work her on the bridle wit sum perswadsion (spelling im sorry).

like u i considered a hackamore, as a friends lil mare had one and she was also resistant to a bit and the hackamore was great on her wit a quiet rider and a light contact. but i found the sweet iron just rite for my mare.

hope that has helped a lil :)

[shandy84]

Hiya thanks for the advice

The one I got (which was also the one suggested) was the English type. the one I have has a leather padded chin strap to it - is that the more comfortable type?

She is responsive to the voice and seat you can do everything but she has a real reaction to a bit....

I will do that Es will ride her in the other half of her field that is resting, she's not nasty and has been fine with pressure noseband headcollars etc I know they don't involve the poll though so it will be interesting to see what she makes of it.

I was told with youngsters to ride with a wider distance between the reins and lower towards the bottom of the neck to make aids clearer will this still be effective with the hackamore?

I will pay attention to making sure I ask more with seat than hand to start and see if we can do it

cvb the OH has actually wanted Shandy to be his western mare would you believe, in what way is it more like western riding?

Her teeth are through and she has recently had a float but she has always been a bit resistent of the bt, she has quite a fleshy tongue and small mouth so this could be why she dislikes her bits, I havent heard of a crosspull how does that work?

Yeah we have tried two or three styles of sweet iron bits with no effect, we have also tried happy mouth, rubber and normal metal in various shapes the french link is better than most but still nowhere near good.

[cvb]

"English" riding is a bit like micro-management. You are riding with a contact all the time, managing every adjustment, directing every move. Its "always on" (like broadband).

With western the idea is that you only need to say something to the horse if you asking it to do something different. i.e. if it all stays the same you are quiet. This is much less effort for both horse and rider if you're out there all day :eek: So its 'dial up' rather than broadband ;)

So if your horse is happily toddling along in the direction and speed you have asked for, just sit back and enjoy. Like a "free walk on a long rein" type level of contact (or less).

OK - so say you want to change something, and you have these washing line reins .... well of course you might not have time to gather them all in, so you want you horse trained to react to the lightest of signals through your weight, and through the weight of the rein and bit (hence neck reining and the use of curbs or hackamores).

So its not just as simple as letting the reins go, but if you head in this direction - i.e. the concept of not having a firm contact all the time, it should help avoid any problems with pressure points and numbness.

By the way, the quality of contact you have with a western horse is still consistent, "there", just much much lighter. Most of us have seen horses looking for that consistency from the rider - seeking the contact - so you might think that western style would worry some horses. But as long as the connection is there (it doesn't need to be heavy, firm etc), its fine. So the difference between western and riding is more about the quality and nature of the contact, than one having contact and one not. If a horse knows that you will only adjust when you need to, they are perfectly happy and confident to get on with their job :D

p.s. yes it sounds like you have the milder version of hackamore :)

[Volvic]

she has quite a fleshy tongue and small mouth so this could be why she dislikes her bits, Sky has the same sort of mouth conformation & hates single jointed bits so she's ridden in a Myler & loves it!

If you did want to keep a bit in, then it may be worth investigating the Myler bits & trying to borrow one to see if shandy goes better in it.

[shandy84]

Thanks for that I will see if she hates the nose/poll pressure if she doesn't it would be worth looking into cheers.

She has thrown really big tantrums in the past from having a bit and noseband on, we removed the noseband and she went a bit better - less fighting just resistance, so she may hate the hackamore or she may like it, as she really responds to a nose based headcollar.

Is it possible that the noseband was holding the bit too tight for her small mouth or was holding it in a bad place which is why she reacted worse with a noseband on?

[Mehitabel]

certainly possible shandy. if she's a sensitive type it wouldn't take much to make her react, even just something rubbing and uncomfy. i bought a new top last week and the first day i wore it i was driven to distraction all day - it had scratchy thread holding the label on. doesn't take much. in fact - just typing that, my neck ahs started itching again!

[shandy84]

:D



I'm off to try the hackamore now wish me luck, I'll let you know if it has any effect cheers for all your advice :)

[shandy84]

I have just ridden Shandy as you advised in the field next to Bramble. When we are riding in there she is generally very nappy and awkward we can never circle and have trouble leaving the side Bramble is on.

Today none of that! :D


Today we were doing small circles big circles bi of leg yield. To begin with she was a bit confused (probably because I was sorting myself out) and then she really and I mean really relaxed. I had her head pretty much level with her withers was brilliant. It made such a difference overall as well as she was so tense when bitted but so much more relaxed and happy, when bitted she wouldn't reach out and take rein even when we were just ploding around.

So why do you think it worked?

Also I have a lesson on her on Monday and would like to know if I should take her up there bitted or in the hackamore (I won't have time to practice run with the hackamore before it) what do you think would be best

the pic below is her standard postion while bitted (am I right she looks tense through her back?

[Mehitabel]

yes, she does look tense in that pic. i'd go in the hackamore, since it was such a success today, and perhaps stick the bit in your pocket just in case.

glad it went well!

[Showjumper]

Yay I'm glad it went well :D