Clicker training - anyone use it?

[Dales_Lover]

I know, I'm suppost to be doing Parelli, but I've all of a sudden got into clicker training :rolleyes:

I had great fun doing it today with Ebony Moo mare - she thinks its great as she gets lots of food, I think its great as she's so unbelievably calm after we have done one session, and she is much more happier in herself. Today we did some fly spray stuff with the sponge, then went on to the bottle ("Urghhh no mum!!" says Ebby) and in the end she was quite happily letting me squirt her neck and shoulders - I've had times with her before where she has been running around me trying to get away from the nasty fly spray! Thankfully she has a fly rug so it makes mine and her life so much easier now :D

Although we are having great fun with this, I'm worried about how we can take this into our riding - Ebby won't eat anything out of my hand with the bit in (but will quite happily treat the hedge as a drive thru as we are walking along) so how can I still click and reward her? Yesterday we went out and I took the clicker along and some treats with me, but it was easier to give her a well earned pat and a kind word. I think she'd get confused if I coupled the Click with a stroke instead of a treat - she does love her food!

I haven't done this with a book as referance, I got some info off the internet from various websites about the basic foundations and the structure of clicker training, but would it be worth for me investing in one of the books? In think we may be on to a winner here in our trianing, as so far she has responded to it brilliantly :D

Also - before I forget - when she comes to me in the field for me to catch her, walking down the lanes ect down to the yard - must I Click and Treat then? I haven't done so far, she gets a treat anyway when I catch her, but she has been a bit 'sloppy' while we have been walking to and from the yard lately......

Anyway - any help/answers/confused look would be appreaciated!!

x

[Miriam]

It should work into your riding as the click is the actual reward eventually. Normally you only start with the treat to ensure that you get a ground to work on and the hors knows what is going on. I worked it inot my driving with Rhi and you can imagine how hard that it would be to give her a treat from the driving position :D Once you have got the basic grips you use only the click and no treat.

Another thing is that you can combine it with the parelli work.

[Yann]

I've not understood it that way, the click is always coupled with a reward, it signals the correct behaviour, and doesn't become a reward in itself? My own experience is that you can teach things with the clicker and then lose it - the behaviour remains established without it.


It is simple, fun and non stressfull, I've managed to do a lot more with it in a short space of time than previously without it, and you can easily incorporate it into other 'systems' as well. What Pat & Co would say about it is a different matter:D I have the book, but have used it more as an insight into the techniques and philosophy than a day to day reference - you won't be going far wrong with what you've read on the subject around and about.

Not really taken the riding thing very far as yet (ought to perhaps!) but Rio understands very well and I don't have any trouble treating her from the saddle. What are you treating with? She ought to be able to take some grains of mix or something similar with a bit in I would have thought. Alexandra Kurland's second book deals with the ridden use of the clicker, must get round to getting it ordered.

[Miriam]

Soory Yann should have explained further. You first loose the treat and then you can loose the click. With Rhi she took the click as the reward from the cart issue. When you clicked her ears pricked up. At first she did look for the reward but once she realised that non was coming she took the click as a good thing. (if you see what I mean) The click is the bridge reinforcer to start off with.

Can I ask which book you have? I have the one by Rashid? and the girl who trained at Sea World (cant remember the title off hand)

We started off with target training and it was more funny seeing the looks of the faces of the people on the yard who thought it would never work when she would target round her stable :D

[Yann]

Rio picked up the target training very quickly too:) The book I have is the Alexandra Kurland one, I beleive she pioneered the clicking technique with horses, it's more or less the reference work on the subject. Not sure if there's a slight difference of approach between she and Mark Rashid then, the thing about losing the treat is one aspect I didn't pick up from my reading. Not to say I didn't miss it of course.

[Miriam]

I basically introduced Clicker training to Rhi to get her to load as she started being difficult to load into the trailer. Have to say it worked but then she seemed to suss it out and stopped going in. Now I have to use the 'be nice halter' :rolleyes: I then introduced clicker training to Kito when we were having problems picking up one of his feet. It worked and now we can pick it up with no problems. There are a few photos of Kito target training in order to keep him facing us or moving away from us when he was going through the 'kicking at me phase' in my photo album.


I picked up on the use of parelli and clicker training whilst doing research on cicker training from a website :


www.iceryder.net/7games.html

[drookitsheep]

I thought I'd give clicker training a try too, but I'm just starting with it. Like you Dales_Lover I'm wondering how it will eventually incorporate into riding, rather than just when I'm on the ground. My thinking was that if I can get Murphy to be a bit more attentive when I'm on the ground, that might at least get the ball rolling when I'm on board!

Not sure which websites you've been using, but I found these ones - http://www.clickertraining.com and http://theclickercenter.com/

I also bought Alexandra Kurland's book "Clicker Training for Your Horse", but as I only got it on Wed last week, I haven't read much. From the quick flick through I've had so far, it seems like things like lateral work can be started from the ground, and then with the aid of a helper, done from on board.

Sorry this hasn't really been very helpful as I seem to have the same queries you have, but I'd be interested to hear the replies!

Best wishes, Sarah

[Wally]

I used it to train a bolshy mare out of banging her head about all the time while being led.

Amoung other things.

Horses seem, on the whole to understand the clicker idea.

[Dales_Lover]

Thank you for all the replies :D

Miriam - I've printed off that copy of the 7 games, and read it through many times already :D I'm going to try some with madam tomorrow!

Ebby can't really eat from my hand when I'm on her as she's a bit of a silly billy and can't eat anything like nuts with the bit in :rolleyes: a nice long stalk however can be sucked up and chewed in no time!

I've been target training her as well, a yellow bucket and a brush have been a few things we've done - oh and the fly spray bottle :D

Hopefully Tuesday morning I'll be able to get out riding early, so we can spend a long time sorting out Clicking and Treating while I'm on her without being disturbed by other horses - do you think 5.30 am is early enough?!! I think she'll be more asleep than me ;)

Sarah (drookitsheep) - I've been on both of those websites as well! I found the clicker center one more informative, I did go on another as well which was good, but can i remember the address of it?!! :rolleyes:

Just a quick query - what happens if you forget your clicker?? :rolleyes:

x

[drookitsheep]

Forgetting the clicker... I'm sure I read somewhere (I think it was flicking through Alexandra Kurland's book) that you can make the click sound with your tongue. I think you can wean the horse off the mechanical clicker and begin to use your voice to make the noise which helps when you're riding, so you have your hands free.

(Apparently!) it's supposed to be done by making a single click of your tongue off the roof of your mouth (sounding more like a "cluck") whereas the usual noise we make, the "click", ie when we want the horse to go forward, is done at the corner of the mouth. I'm sure I read somewhere it's supposed to sound more like a "cluck" than a "click" and that's how the horse should tell the difference.

[Bebe]

I click with my tongue and Bebe associates it with a reward, just as she does on the rare occasions when I actually have a proper clicker to hand.

I don't always treat when I click, Bebe has been doing CT for long enough that she knows the click means she's done well, though she does usually look for a treat even if one isn't coming :)

I do use clicker training for ridden work, mostly when I'm introducing new things (at the moment it's turn on the forehand, she finds it really hard) or when she's done something really well. It definitely makes a difference to her as she tries much harder when she knows that she's on the right track and it eliminates a lot of the frustrationg that can occur when you're trying to teach something new and your horse only half understands what you want. Breaking it down into baby steps and then rewarding each step makes life so much easier.

I do treat whilst under saddle too, Bebe is very good about it so I lean over and Bebe turns her head to get the treat. Only really works with carrot slices though, anything else is a bit small and fiddly.

[Lovecat]

I have to admit that, after having had high hopes for Clicker training, as Murph loves his food, I've now given up on it.

Murphy never seemed to get past the 'your horse may get very excited at this point' stage, no matter how long we went on - in the end he was getting bargy for treats and, while not nasty about it, just did not seem to associate the click with the action and reward at all - I spent about a month persevering with him before admitting defeat - the fact I had food in my pocket got him so excited he was blind and deaf to what I was asking him to do and he was getting too grabby for comfort - when he took a chunk of my thumb off (not intentionally, purely through a combination of my hand only being half out of my pocket and not flat and his greedy pushiness) I decided enough was enough and went back to basics with common sense and a bit of Kelly Marks - he is now not a grabby horse at all, will stand nicely at the mounting block (my whole purpose in beginning the clicker training!) and is very kind and obediant!

I just have to accept that when I train him, I can only reward with praise, not treats, as too much is never enough with that horse - the food become too distracting and he starts looking for it rather than listening to me!

Anyone want to buy a clicker and an Alexandra Kurland book, partly-used?;)

[Tootsie4U]

Believe it or not, but rumor has it that Alexandra Kurland actually gives lessons at my new barn! An apprentice of hers gives regular lessons on the weekend and Kurland makes special appearances every now and then!

From what I gather, the actual treat *can* be phased out so that the reward is only the click and praise. Just my two cents. Watched a bit of the apprentice's lesson this Saturday. Its neat stuff!

[Yann]

Wowee, I daresay she has to live somewhere, so why not near your barn:D


I obviously need to pay more attention to what I'm reading, though at the moment I think Rio would be quite offended if she generated a click and didn't get a treat:) That's not to say that quite a few bits we did with the clicker have really stuck, it is a very useful tool as you say, especially with a food oriented horse.

[Zimbah]

I don't want to hijack this thread but it's the first one I've seen about clicker training, I didn't know if anyone here does it. How often do you have to train with the clicker for the horse to understand? I ride a horse once a week and would really like to try clicker training her (if her owner agrees) but am not sure if once a week will be enough for her to remember - what do you think? Also do you have to click everything? If the horse learns that clicking means well done, do they then get confused when they do their normal things but get no click?

[drookitsheep]

I'm no expert and have only just started using clicker training, but I think the objective (or at least my objective!) is to use it for help with specific training issues, rather than as praise for good behaviour which is already established. I've been getting Murphy used to umbrellas!

As far as I understand it so far, the click isn't praise as such, but is more like confirmation that the horse has behaved as desired with some new task/request, and only thereafter comes the reward/praise. With the things the horse already does, he should be praised, but shouldn't require the clicker, as the behaviour is already established. I also think it would be quite overwhelming for the horse to try and clicker train every single bit of good behaviour he does within, say 2-3 hours that you spend with him at a time. I think the training needs to be concentrated and focused on a particular aim to have any real benefit or meaning.

I'm not sure if that makes sense!

[Bebe]

Zimbah, I think that you could use clicker training just once a week, I might only do a specific clicker session once a week at the moment and it doesn's seem to matter to my horse. You might find that it takes longer to get the initial idea of click = good over to your horse though as often this is the hardest part (it's dead easy to get them to think click = treats though!).

[Yann]

My own experience is that once the horse understands, it keeps that understanding. I might not do anything with the clicker for weeks at a time (this time of year:)) but Rio immediately responds when I do get it out. Horses have a great memory.

[drookitsheep]

I've just read my last post on this thread and I don't think it's come out quite as I intended!

I also think it would be quite overwhelming for the horse to try and clicker train every single bit of good behaviour he does within, say 2-3 hours that you spend with him at a time. I think the training needs to be concentrated and focused on a particular aim to have any real benefit or meaning.

What I meant by this is that I think it would be overwhelming for any horse to have every bit of good behaviour "clicked" within say 2-3 hours that he's with his rider, and I'm not sure that's the point of clicker training.

I wasn't trying to say that I don't think clicker training once a week wouldn't be worth doing! From the little I've done with Murphy so far, I've noticed improvements even within single sessions (from not wanting to go near one, he was happy to walk up to and sniff an open umbrella on the ground).

Just wanted to clarify as I think my last post was a little confused!

[Zimbah]

Thanks everyone, I'll ask her owner if they're happy for me to clicker train then give it a try - I think I'll buy a book first though so I know what I'm doing.