Foot trimming and rearing - ideas please?

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I have a small problem with Rhodri. While the little dear is more than happy to have me pick his feet up and scrape/bang/tap them, for some reason he is rather anti-farrier. He's never had a bad experience to explain this - it seems he just doesn't want the farrier fiddling with his feet. He rears whenever farrier gets too close with the nippers - has twice gone over backwards and more than twice got far too close to clobbering me in the head for comfort. New problem - Rhodri dear has now decided that going up is a useful evasion to try on me when he doesn't feel like having his feet picked up.

So - plan was (now that my OH is off sick and on hand) to have one of us hold him and the other play with his feet until stupid horse finally works out that going up won't work. (Holding him and picking up feet on my own is impossible if he decides he's going up). Plan won't work - OH can't balance well enough to hold him.

So anyone have any ideas that will work on my own? Other than tying him up - he ties up pretty well and I'd rather not have him discover he can break the twine by rearing... He used to threaten to rear when led in situations he was unsure about - but it's far easier to stop him doing it when I'm stood beside his head than bent over holding a foot. I assume it started because he was initially unsure of a stranger getting hold of his foot, and has now progressed to a handy way to get out of having his feet done if he's not in the mood.

Question is... how to stop him?

[flowergirl]

When he rears stand to the side leave him alone on a loose line going up (he will resist pressure by pulling against it) and as he starts to come down pull him off balance to the side - he wont like losing his balance and he should think twice about doing it again. Use a long line not a normal lead rope as this gives you both the safe distance to get away from his feet and also leverage to pull him off balance.

As for his feet I would start retraining him - it may be worth retraining using something like clicker. take the training in very small steps, running the had down the leg, picking the foot an inch off the floor and putting it straight down, break the whole process into tiny tiny chunks, staying with each one until he is totally happy, any signs of stress go back a step. This may take a few days but this way you aviod the confrontation. There are some excellent books on clicker but its very easy to use as long as the timing is right.

You need to also identfy why he is doing this, has he had a bad experiance etc and ensure that he comepletely trusts you. In the wild a foot held off the ground is a serious threat to safety so horses have to have real trust to allow you to do this. Is this a new habit, is your farrier careful and considerate?

If you can identfy the reason he is doing this (fear, previous bad experiance etc) Bach Flower Remedies will also help in conjunction with retraining. (my website www.bachflowerremedies.net has information on how these are useful with problems for horses).

Good luck.

[chev]

I know for a fact he's never had a bad experience. Monty bred him, and I bought him off her - I know all about him from birth to coming to me. He was quite happy to have his feet picked up and played with until my farrier first tried. My farrier is really laid back and patient. The first time he tried trimming Rhodri, Rhodri was perfectly happy until farrier picked the rasp up, at which point he went straight up. I think a big part of the problem is just that I've been the only person to handle him - but unfortunately the one thing he's obviously learnt is that rearing is an effective way to stop people messing with his feet if he'd rather play.

He's a very confident, very settled little horse. He's more than happy to have me touch him all over (favourite scratching place is all over his belly!) When he does rear I'm certain it's not through fear - he lands quite cheerfully and stands happily - his whole behaviour is too calm and relaxed to indicate fear. I think he has just learnt to use rearing as an evasion.

I'll definitely try pulling him off balance - he has gone over backwards and that hasn't put him off trying. :rolleyes: Someone else suggested catching him on the belly with a rope when he rears.

He will still happily lift his feet for me most days. The days when he doesn't tend to be the days when I've interrupted his playing to work with him - I do think we're talking tantrums here. So based on that, would the flower remedies help, and what would I need to give him?

No bad experiences, some suspicion of a new handler, and a feeling that he can throw his weight around to get his own way. I've used the Bach remedies once or twice before, and I felt they were good - if I can use them to help sort this out I would.

[flowergirl]

Hi,

Id really need to know a lot more about your horse to prescribe properly but heres some ideas for you:

Holly for the suspicion
Vine for dominance and wanting his own way
Agrimony for hidden fears and perhaps some worry that he isnt showing you
Walnut to break the behaviour pattern and learn new behaviour
Impatience for tension and wanting his own way NOW - irritated by constraints

2 drops of each remedy should be put into a 30ml dropper bottle with 1 teaspoon brandy and topped up with mineral water. Put 4 drops 4 times a day in feed or if this isnt possible 10 drops in breakfast and 10 in dinner.

Larch would also be useful if you feel he lacks confidence.

Is he ok with you with the nippers and rasp ? if not some work with these may help. It may also help if your farrier is up to do other horses for him to come and give some fuss and attention without actually doing anything

Also are you anticipating him going up and maybe a little nervous ? if so rescue remedy might help you be calmer for him.

Rhodri was perfectly happy until farrier picked the rasp up, at which point he went straight up

The fact that he was happy until the rasp comes into play suggests it may have frightend him (?) at the time as it is quite an extreme reaction rather than just moving away or shying if he was startled. so Aspen for fear of the unknown (perhaps fear of what the rasp is and what happens now etc) may also help.

Any questions please let me know - particualry if you feel (knowing your own horse!!) that the remedies ive suggested dont correspond with his nature or situation :)

[lisae]

I had to laugh because except for the Holly, the initial mix is just what I need for my 12 year old twin sons! just kidding,

I have a two month old colt who does the same thing, he will stand generally while I pick up feet but if anyone else is around to help he will start to rear and throw himself over me. We are trying to get ready for the farrier visit on August 16 and I'm afraid we will have the same problem. Our boy was not scared by the first time with the farrier (farrier only wanted to assess his little baby feet, not even do anything with them) but just threw himself all over the stall. Generally, our farrier advises placing the baby right up against the stall wall so they feel very secure. I have also hand-fed hay into their faces so they are distracted.

I have no helpful ideas since we are going through this ourselves but my next step here is going to be having my husband pick up the feet and tap them while I hold Finn and try and keep him in position.

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Unfortately holding Rhodri up against a wall isn't really an option, since he's now a strapping great big yearling cob colt!

He's been happy for me to 'rasp' his feet - in fact he's been touched all over with it and not batted an eyelid. Farrier is next out on Wednesday, so I think we'll just have a bonding session and leave it at that. :rolleyes:

flowergirl - he's not currently being fed - do I need to give a small feed or is there another way to give the remedies? I think he was frightened the first time the rasp came into play - there was no real warning at all; one minute he was stood quietly while farrier held his foot, the next he saw the rasp and went. Very sudden. He has tried to use rearing to get his own way or evade something he's uncertain of before - even as a weanling, he would rear if led away from other horses. We did get over that a while back, but it is so much harder trying to stop a horse going up when you're bent over with his foot!

[flowergirl]

so much harder trying to stop a horse going up when you're bent over with his foot!

oh yes much harder and not very pleasant!! Thats why I's lift the foot only inches at first and put it straight down - that way you can hopefully aviod him going up by the breaking it into very small stages. I think it will help if perhaps your farrier does a big of fussing with no pressure - this worked for my horse with the vet.

I sometimes half an apple take the pips out and put the remedy in that.... Or you could soak into a suger cube. One of my clients soaks them into herbal treats or you could just give him a handful of feed with it in (it only needs to be a tiny amount) - whatever works best for you is fine as long as it goes down.

[chev]

Thanks for that. Farrier will be here in the morning, so we'll see what happens this time. Fingers crossed...

[johnston]

hi have been looking with intrest at your resent post and i have the same problem with my new cob colt only that i have only owned him a week so we new to each uther so that not helping realy i think bule has had a bad time he seems warey of a lot but i would be if i did not no eneyone in the new home i hope he will setele down i feel sorry for him poor thing