Quiet hands

[cometa]

Hello All,

Since I am new to the board I just want to say hello first to all and tell everyone how much I have enjoyed reading this site for the past six months.

I am a new rider, started real lessons 6 months ago. Before that I really hadn't ridden except for a couple of trail rides in my entire life. Finally, as an adult, I'm giving this a try and absolutely loving every minute of it!

Many of you have answered MANY questions without me ever having to post before, but I have an issue that I'm a little confused about. Any suggestions will be helpful! Sorry it is long but I want to give details...

I have very quiet hands generally and a good basic seat for a beginner. We have done W/T/C and I finally don't feel afraid at the canter. I am even starting to know diagonals by feel, which is a real breakthrough! However, I'm having difficulty with transitions UPWARD into a canter. I have been told to collect the horse, reins back, impulsion to send him forward, bend, etc. and I usually get it. But when we start to go forward I am confused about what to do with my hands. I can keep them low and still when we canter, but the instructer says I have to move them with the horses mouth so I don't punish him. After a couple of good transitions into canter and the horse unhappy because I bang on his mouth, he no longer wants to collect and canter and starts to evade the bit. :confused:

Can anyone tell me what you think I might be doing wrong? I really love cantering now and want to keep goooooing! :D

THANKS!!!

[Mike]

This is one of those awkward problems that may be more due to the horse than you. In a horse that has good self carriage and is using his hind legs to push himself along there will be very little backwards and forwards movement in the head at canter. If the horse is dragging himself along with his front feet then the head will tend to go back and forth to help him keep his balance.

I know that doesn't really answer your question but ideally on a good horse you should be able to keep your hands still. Is there another horse you can ride who is better balanced? You will then see the difference.

[Sharon H]

If you can keep 'good hands' at the walk, the canter shouldn't really be any different. I agree with Mike, it does sound as though the horse is not too well balanced. Could you try having your reins a touch longer? That might help a bit too.

[cometa]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I would like to let the reins out a bit, but my instructor keeps telling me to make them shorter to collect him so that he pushes from behind...

I have seen another student canter with this same horse and her hands fly up and down they look like they're having a lot of fun! He just canters happily along! Then I ride him and he avoids the bit and my instructer says I'm punishing his mouth, but I'm trying really hard not to let my hands fly around and keep them low. (Well the best I can after only 6 months.) Should I move them more?

Upward transitions into the canter have been difficult for me on the other school horse too, but I was told he was being lazy and that it wasn't my fault. :confused:

Is there any good way to tell if you are the problem or if maybe it is just a lesson horse issue and I'm just being tuned out because the horse knows he can get away with it?

I'm sure a more advanced rider would have no problem working with him. He's a very well trained ex-show horse and all the other students LOVE to ride him. I just don't feel like we click.

Thanks again for all the help!

[Dizzy]

when we can't see what is happening. I think you should tell your instructor that you are confused with what she's teaching you.

There are 2 good books that I have read that give really good explanations of what your hands should be up to. Heather's book is one and Sally Swift with 'Centred Riding'.

You should hold your reins so that there is a straight line running form your elbow to your horses mouth, the contact should be soft but firm. Your hands should be thumbs up and the main contact of the rein held between your thumb and first finger, the other three fingers are used to ask with, eg left turn, squeeze and release with your left hand. Maybe you are using your whole hand as the contact and that is what your instructor means by punishing his mouth. Ask her what she means, you have obviously done really well so far and will only learn more if you understand what you are doing wrong.

One other suggestion is ask if you can use a kneck strap, these are great for keeping your hands off your horses mouth. I don't think you have a major problem, you just need some fine tuning and that is what you are paying your instructor for, she is on the ground watching and should be giving positive advice, not negative critism.

Hope this helps, but if you have time read the books mentioned above, they are real eye openers and tackle every problem you are likely to come up against.

Lesley

[Sharon H]

I can see what your instructor means but I think it's a little unrealistic to ask someone who has only been rididng as long as you to start 'collecting' the horse. In any case you can't have collection untill you have balance and to achieve collection you need to ride forward into the bit, not restrict the head. I'm fairly sure from what you've said that the problem is caused by your reins being to short. This will have the effect of pulling you out of the saddle and make your seat less secure, this, in turn, will encourage you to 'hang on' to the reins more,which will then encourage the horse to lean and become more unbalanced, it's a viscious circle.

[horselover]

Shortening your reins will only make the problem worse, not better. Collection doesn't come that way- you can't get the horse responsive to the bit by pulling harder against his mouth. Loosening the reins will allow the horse to feel comfortable dropping his head and then you can think about very slowly shortening the reins- just slightly.

Personally, I am also a little confused about the hand moving thing. I have always been taught to keep my hands still and steady, not flap them around. I had a friend who did this, and she was always getting yelled at by our trainer- he told her that flapping her arms like a chicken was not going to make her horse fly, just make her look stupid! :) Certainly, you should not hold your hands stiff- you want to be nice and supple, allowing the horse freedom of movement since their head does "bob" when cantering for balance. But there is a big difference between that and actually concentraing on moving your hands.

I don't like to contradict your instructor, and maybe I am just misunderstandiing, since obviously, he sees you and I haven't, but his instructions just don't sound right to me.

[cometa]

Thanks everybody for your suggestions!

I'm going to try to keep the reins a little longer and hope that it helps for now (until I can learn to collect him properly).

[fionahogg]

Cometa, you say in your original post that your instructor tells you to "collect the horse, reins back, impulsion to send him forward, bend, etc". What does s/he mean by 'reins back'? I take it to mean bringing your hands back...? Correct me if I'm wrong. But if this is what you are doing then the horse will be restricted and this could be the cause of your problem?
Just a thought!

Fiona

[Dizzy]

likens it to riding a a bike, if you are pedaling (asking forward) and keeping a soft contact on your handle bars you will go forward. On the other hand if you are pedaling and putting on the brake (rein back) you won't.

Collection is when you ride your horse into your hand, not your hand into your horse. You should not have to gather in the front end to go forward but the other way round, impulsion comes from the back legs stepping underneath, even when halting you should ride forward into the halt rather than stop the front end and let the back catch up.

Years ago the horse I rode was permanantly on the forehand because everyone including myself had tryed to control her from her mouth e.g. pushing on with the leg, but holding onto her mouth because she just charged along as fast as she could with her back legs just following along as best they could. It took alot of practise and nerve to have a gentle, loose at first, but firm contact on her mouth and to keep asking her forward, at first she carted along completely unbalanced and me thinking that my instructor had completely lost her senses, but eventually when Dizz had nothing to lean on her back legs began to step through and what a feeling, it was amazing. This is what you need your instructor to teach you. To 'rein back' but give 'impulsion' is conflicting aids and confusing for your horse.

This all takes experience and practise, talk to you instructor and ask her to explain where you are going wrong, I firmly believe that alot of instructors are giving very limited tuition (though there are many good ones too) but instead of saying you are 'punishing the mouth' she should be advising how to hold your reins at an appropriate length, teaching how to use your lower fingers to squeeze and give, and how and when to use your legs, giving encouragement on your good points and building from there.

Wishing you lots of luck

Lesley

[cometa]

Thanks again. This week's lesson was a little better. The barn rotates between different instructors who all focus on different issues, which is kind of nice because they all find something unique to work on.

From everything I've read, and from your posts, I would think I wouldn't have to hold the reins back to canter. But when I don't do it he ignores my aids and trots away. If I collect the reins he canters (probably on his forehand, yes). I'm hoping this will get better with practice.

[KarlR]

Whilst I agree that a well balanced horse shouldn't need you to to give when asking for canter, most horses do to a lesser or greater extent and learning to allow that movement will be beneficial for you.

Indeed some horses, like yours, positively have to have that extra movement and in my experience young horses always appreciate it. Many school horses in particular tend to pull themselves along on the forehand and that only accentuates the problem.

Unfortunately, it's one of those things that requires some practice, even if your seat is balanced.

You only need to give for one stride - a fraction of a second - and even then you still keep a contact throughout. Try to hold the reins lightly and perhaps bend your arms a little more than usual so that you can absorb the movement initially. Don't shorten the reins though.

The movement involved is usually less then 6 inches so don't feel tempted to just throw the reins at the horse - in any case, this will make it difficult to retake the "loose" rein on the second stride.

It will probably take you a little while to get used to this - maybe several lessons - so don't get disheartened. I don't think that the occasional light jank will put your horse off cantering!! :)

[RebaRage]

soft, following hands come from you arm....your shoulder, and elbow have to be very relaxed... there needs to be an even give & take between your hands & the horse's mouth that should come from your arms...you could be too stiff throughout your arms, try to relax and just allow yuor arms to give, and follow the horse's head...this does take tme to get,..."good hands" don't come overnight unfortunately for the horse!