Am I too

[Luna]

Hi Everyone,

I am a new member and find this site wonderful!I hope that
you could give your advice and helpful hints to my little
problem.Here goes: I started taking riding lessons four months ago first time in my life if you don't count the few quite miserable tries as a ten year old(over twenty years ago now).I have been going three times a week and have the basics down somewhat ok,except sitting trot and canter which still need a lot of work Well, this week I leased on monthly basis a 17h plus (I'm 6 f)warmblood.He's 13,great barn manners and affectionate.The problem is this;when I'm asking him from walk to trot he flips his ears back,flings his head high,arches his neck,starts to rear and just won't pick up the trot.Today it took me about 20 min before he would trot and only after my trainer got on the saddle,used the crop to his rear end,kicked hard and made him do really small circles.For me riding like this is no fun,I'm not an aggressive rider,more on the mellow side.My question is;is this something that could be corrected ,am I able to do it or is it just too late to teach an "old" horse new tricks?
Will really appreciate your insights.Thanks for reading through.

[Sharon H]

Did you have this horse checked by the vet before you leased him? If even your instructor has to hit him before he will trot, it sounds to me as though he is either sick to death of working in a school, or has something wrong with him that makes it painful for him to trot. Is he sound when he does trot? Will he trot happily on the lunge or out of the school?

[LindaAd]

The reaction you describe sounds like pain rather than just laziness or being sick of schooling. Have you asked the instructor about it?

[Luna]

The horse has been checked and is sound.Also it is privately owned by a lady who doesn't have time to ride,but did the jumpers with him still two years ago. Once I get him going on the trot he goes willingly and doesn't seem to mind,it is just hard to make him start.The owner has always been carrying crop and even been using spurs.Could this be only stubborness?

[Wally]

Does his saddle fit comfortably? Are his teeth okay?

Most things can be corrected in a horse but you may have to become an aggressive rider once or twice (if he is stubborn and not in pain) Once you have made it quite clear to him that you will not stand for nonsense he will be rideable in a mellow style.

[Luna]

Wally,teeth are OK,as far as the saddle goes I am going to make sure it fits well.I think my trainer would agree with you that I have to get little tougher,sort of showing him who the boss is.Scary though,especially when he starts to back up.Anyways will keep you posted on our progress.Thank you all for your advice!

[Cathy Reynolds]

For the first time on this board I'm going to disagree with Wally. This sounds like a serious problem - I wonder if he is physically scared of something. Horses have such long memories. Try lunging him and see if he goes easily into trot without coercion. If he does it suggests it's either something to do with saddlery or memories of a rider. What is he bitted with - try softer rather than 'more metal' - if he's in a gag get him out of it, pronto. Get to know your horse first before trying to do something he is clearly deeply upset about. But then, maybe Wally is right and the poor beastie is just school sour. Then give him a break - get him away from the barn routine a bit - just take him for some long walks (trail rides?) where he is encouraged to stretch out and look around him. Then go back to school - when he is really relaxed on the trail rather than all screwed up in school.

[floppy]

Ehm...you said that the owner doesnt have time to ride anymore which is why you loan the hrose on a monthly basis...what did the owner use to do with the horse when she had time to ride? was it mainly hacking? dressage? general schooling? jumping??
i had the use of a horse a year ago and i had to admit defeat after a month because i just could not get it to go into trot...even with the use of spurs and a whip (i am by no means an aggressive rider, spurs always being my last resort)and whenever i managed to get the horse to go just a little bit faster it use to put it ears back and buck but it never reared...and after a talk with the owner properly i decided it was better for me not to ride the horse anymore. Mainly because the owner admitted to me the hrose doesnt like dressage or general schooling and the hrose gets moody if you try to do this with her.. but the hrose loves hackign out, jumping and just recently the owner has dsicovered the horse has a love for polo. So it as just not meant to be for me or the horse becaus ei wanted a horse to ride that i could improve my dressage with!
its just a suggestion of one of the many possibilties as to why you are having a probelm :) so maybe you should consider doing something different with the horse and if it still doesnt work maybe you should think about moving on to a more suitable horse for your ability. Especially as you havent been riding for a long time, it will make things easier for you and having a horse that can help teach you how fun riding can be is more important at the early stages than a horse that seems to be "sour" and akward.

[Pamela 85]

Sounds to me like he's getting mad. Are you squeezing to make him trot before kicking? Or are you just thumping with your heels? If so, maybe thats the problem. It wouldn't really be fair if you didn't ASK him to trot first, before demanding. So if this IS the problem, REMEMBER: ask(squeezing), tell(kicking), then demand(tap with stick).

HOPE I WAS ABLE TO HELP. GOOD LUCK!!

[Outrider]

Barring any physical pain or tack problems, it sounds to me like the horse has an attitude. Perhaps the owner allowed him to do this and he learned he can get away with it. Ground work would be where I would start, putting the horse in a round pen if possible on and off the lunge line, working through the gaits. If he transitions well there, then move back to riding and he should be more manageable. It may take a bit of extra time in the round pen, but he needs to learn who the new herd boss is. Happy Trails!

[horselover]

I completely agree with outrider on this. Often, we are too quick to try to school a horse by riding it. This isn't always the answer. Try going back to square one and working in the roundpen(or just on a longe or free longe) on transitions up and down. AFTER you do this and the horse improves on the ground, get back on.

If he still acts up, you have to GET MORE AGRESSIVE!!! This is something i learned to do when I started riding all different kinds of horses. Invest in a crop. As much as I dislike them, sometimes they are necessary. When you feel the horse start to gather himself to rear. make your "dissaproval noise" (avoid saying "no" as it sounds too much like "whoa" to a horse whose first language isn't english.), force him into a tight circle, and give him a smack with your crop while holding the reins firmly so that he can't bolt (be prepared for a rear since his attitude tends to suggest that he won't like being disciplined). Walk him a minute in circles to calm him down. Ask for the trot again, using th crop. If he again acts up, do the same thing.

I think that he needs to learn that he can't get away with what he is doing. Punish him for his actions, don't just keep trying to get him to trot. It won't work. If the cause isn't physical, then its an attitude problem and it needs attention.

[Luna]

Hi Outrider,

You made a good point: this old horse propably has an attitude problem.I rode him today and again it took us about 20 min to get through the ear flipping,headraising and
backing up ritual.Well, my trainer suggested that if he so much wants to go backwards instead of going forward,well let's make him ,really make him back up then.Which we did for about 10 times.After all that he was more than willing to pick up the trot with just a slightest squeeze.We also made him go through all the gaits on the longeline which he did perfectly.I am happy because I feel that there is hope that he will turn out to be a pleasure to ride with a litte patience.You all have a great day or night depending where you are!

[Outrider]

Although most horses will willingly do it, backing is not as natural an activity for them. Especially if you have them back a good distance quickly, and do it several times if they keep doing something you don't like. I use it for a chronic bucker and it works well with this habit too. Happy Trails!

[Graymalkin]

Are you absolutely 100% sure this horse isn't in pain? It sounds very much like a pain/remembered pain problem. There are an awful lot of horses out there labelled as difficult, with bad attitudes etc and it comes down to discomfort of some kind. A mare I came across wouldn't canter (or do much else) - I saw her schooled once and she was nuts. Back and tack were okay, but she had teeth problems. My friend's gelding is a rearer - he was thoroughly checked out and given the all clear. However, a different 'expert' and a different diagnosis - the horse started rearing because his back hurt.
You should hear Richard Maxwell on the subject!

[Sharon H]

I must admit I agree with Greymalkin, it sounds as though this horse is trying to tell you that he hurts and I can't endorse the opinion of getting tough with him. It is not normal for a healthy horse to show this much resistance when asked to trot. What you describe goes way beyond a mere reluctance to work.