My Torsion test ride/ First go at bitless!

[katieB]

Had an educational day today, got to try a Torsion saddle for the first time and rode Ellie in a halter! Still no further on with getting a new saddle so Alibi brought me her Torsion down to try and I was very impressed. Could definitley see myself buying one if I didnt need a leather one for showing, it didnt feel as different as I thought it would and I liked the suede feel. Shame I cant afford two saddles..... Does anyone jump in theirs? Wondering if its any different.
Also had a try of riding in a halter, didnt know quite how it would go seeing as thought Ellie hasnt been ridden for over 2 weeks and when I first tried the torsion (with bridle) she was all over the place. Did some parelli for a while and then got Alibi on board to test her out first :D she was great, really relaxed so Im looking forward to trying it again soon although I found it really hard trying not to pick up my 'reins' in the same way as usual!
Just the one pic as my camera decided to have a bit of a breakdown and wouldnt let us take more than one photo :rolleyes:
(excuse my rather hunched position)

[Showjumper]

Ellie looks very chilled out! :) And on another note: Yay, another treeless/bitless fan! :D

[Drummers mum]

Tell us a bit more about the saddle. The differences to a treed one etc. I'm really interested in going treeless.

[Alibi]

I had fun today, especially riding Ellie (she's definately bigger than 15.2!!!). After playing a few games with her (which she is really quick to catch on to) she really relaxed, looking almost asleep at times! Ellie was so good with just the halter on too, especially considering it was her first time and she also had a stranger on her back!

Kate - you know the first time i said i thought the saddle wasn't sitting level, well i checked the saddle pad when i got home and all the marks were nice and even, so i guess it was.

I've done some jumping in the saddle, nothing bigger than 3ft and found it ok, but don't know how it would be over something bigger. Is the SBS Flexion not within your budget???

Drummers mum - its so much more comfy!! With the cobs it doesn't slip / move like the old tree'd saddle did. It gives the cobs the ability to move the shoulder, whereas the treed one restricted the movement. My little TB had a saddle fitted to him but yet he still refused to go forward, he'de idg his heels in and kick out whilst grinding his teeth, now in his torsion he happily goes forward without any fuss. And did i mention how comfy it is!

[Yann]

Ellie's get up there looks similar to my hacking out tack:D

Did you find she moved any differently in the torsion? Rio's first time in the very similar Fitform was a bit of a revelation as she'd previously been in a poorly fitting wintec, it's almost like a sigh of relief for some horses:)

[katieB]

I was looking at the Flexion SBS before, they do look nice and very conventional. Alibi, are the stirrup bars on your torsion cut back like the flexion? On the EE website it makes them sound like a bit of a problem! Is there any way you can try before you buy with these saddles? £900 is a little out of my budget but its not totally impossible (if I sell my car, belongings etc :D ) plus its a lot of money to fork out and then find its not suitable. Im a bit confused about the gullet though, I dont really get what theyre trying to say on the website, they say there is a gullet but its not there for spinal clearance but lateral stablity? :confused:
Yann, it was a bit hard to tell because she was a little hyped up to begin with and then we only walked when we used the halter, she definitley felt more relaxed when I rode her again at the end though. I think if rode her in it again in a proper schooling session I would get a better idea :)

[Miss MoneyPenny]

Katie - that torsion looks good!

I too am in the middle of saddle woes, and I certainly know how you feel!:rolleyes:

I am trialling a SBS out this week. You can trial them via Nix at Neigh, or Better Saddles. It cost £45 from Neigh for 5 day trial, or as you are in the UK one of them closest to you could come out with the saddle. Have a look on their sites!

http://www.neigh.org
http://www.bettersaddles.co.uk

I tried a pals fitform (which I believe to be very similar to the torsion) and I really liked it, but like you I'd like something that could look good in a showring, and dressage etc, that is why I am trying the SBS out too.

My trial should be here at the end of this week, and so I'll let you know how it goes!

Good luck!:D

[Yann]

The gullet is there on the SBS and it does provide a bit of spine clearance whatever its intended purpose, so I'd imagine it would be better for horses with prominent spines for example than a Fitform with an ordinary numnah. The saddle is definitely very stable though.

What do you mean by cutback stirrup bars? Is this the issue with people losing their leathers? I was lucky enough to try the SBS dressage again, and this time I am convinced, and so clearly was Rio, so much so that my wallet is now itching:o Currently though it would also be a case of selling the car or child to finance it:D

[Alibi]

Just sell the child Yann!!:D

Kate - do you mean are the stirrups bars set back, because i don't understand what you mean by cutback. If you mean set back, well they are slightly and it means you ride in a better position.

Don't suppose there are many second hand Flexions?

Maybe worth a phone call to ask them if they do a payment plan, they place where i bought my Torsions from let me pay over 3 months (with post-dated cheques) but have the saddle immediately.

[katieB]

Helen, you can be my guinea pig then, I want an in depth product review at the end of the 5 days :D Thanks for the websites, ill check them out.
:o Sorry Alibi, I did mean setback not cutback, its just on the website it says "The saddle has come a very long way in appearance and feel since the first prototype eight years ago, and is now a very conventional looking saddle that is entirely treeless. The only hard part being the stirrup bars!" - why are they the hard part?
C'mon Yann, ill sell my car if you will :D

[Miss MoneyPenny]

Katie - I certainly will do! I'll be giving you all a blow by blow account!

Another good site to watch all about the SBS is called Dales Fans, I use it and alot of other non dales owners do too, but there are a lot of people who have the SBS, and you can read all about their trials etc, take a look....

Dales Fans (http://www.dalesfans.org.uk/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi)

[katieB]

I just emailed Better Saddles and Neigh to ask about hiring a Flexion. I had a look on Nix's site which looks better as you get the saddle for 5 days for £45 where you only get it for 3 days for the same price at Better Saddles :(

[Miss MoneyPenny]

That's why I went with Nix too - she has been brill, sending me numnahs, pads, girths and everything to try with it too!:D I should have mine on Friday this week!

[Yann]

Originally posted by katieB
"The saddle has come a very long way in appearance and feel since the first prototype eight years ago, and is now a very conventional looking saddle that is entirely treeless. The only hard part being the stirrup bars!" - why are they the hard part?
C'mon Yann, ill sell my car if you will :D [/B]

LOL, is that a slight misquote? I've read it before and I'm sure they mean hard as in rigid:)

As to the car I think work might have something to say about it. The child it is:eek:

[Drummers mum]

I've read this and several other threads about treeless saddles and now I'm confused.

Theres the SBS Flexion, which looks quite like a treed saddle.
The Freeform(formaly fitform) which I also like the look of but how does it differ from the SBS
The torsion, which looks odd but comfy and a bit like the fitform.
and the Trekker that seems quite cheap compared to the cost of the others!

Are there any more? How do they differ? I like to feel very secure in the saddle I thought the SBS looks very shallow. I also don't understand about the spine clearance, I thought they all needed that? and which one would be best for a round 12.3hh pony and a fat bum!? (the bum being mine! lol)

I've looked at them all on the net but find it hard to answer these questions as therare no indep. sites that show you them all together!

By the way someone on Ebay has a Torsion on at £525.

[katieB]

Ohhhhhhhhh dear :o :o Yann, I think you may be right, the only solid part of the saddle is the stirrup bars :o :D Its times like this I remember why they nicknamed me Blondy in college...

[Drummers mum]

oh and the barefoot, but I can't find a pic although I found Galadriels site.

[Yann]

Fitform / Torsion / Barefoot / Trekker / Dartmoor Treefree - all basically the same design with two wooden arches front and back and a seat which extends over the top of the stirrup bars / rings. No spine clearance under the saddle but the arch relieves pressure from the withers to some degree. Better on wide horses.

Freeform - Different design and replacement for the Fitform with the saddle based on a semi rigid foam base with a detachable seat and adjustable stirrup ring position. Wither clearance is provided by a metal arch which velcros to the front of the saddle, though this is apparently under review. No specific spine clearance though some is provided by the arch. Again better on wide horses. Looks more conventional shapewise though not completely so.

SBS - Again based on a semi rigid foam base but somewhat thicker than the Freeform. Does look fairly conventional and rides more like a conventional saddle too. It has a channel over the spine and normal type stirrup bars. Can apparently be used on most types of horses successfully, including narrow high withered ones.

Ansur - Again pretty conventional looking, but fiendishly expensive. Doesn't have spine clearance apart from the jumping version as I understand it.

The problem with most of them for a pony is how big and long they are, though apparently a smaller version of the SBS is planned and there may be pony versions of some of the others available.

I've ridden in both the SBS and the Freeform and they both give very secure seats, the one on the Fitform is slightly too long for my skinny bum though, certainly for schooling purposes:D

Feel free to correct any of the above BTW;)

[Drummers mum]

Thanks Yann, I think I'v got a better picture of them now! The Torsion comes in a pony size but I don't know if it would be big enough for me!

Anyone with a pony use any of the treeless? Comments?

I still don't understand why its ok not to have spine clearance? Is it because its not hard like a tree?

Edit anyone got any pics of there horses in the different saddles?

[Bebe]

I'll try to find some pics of Bebe out pre-treeless saddle and with her Fitform & Freeform on so you can see the differences. She looks like a different horse pre-treeless though.

The Freeform does give a channel over the spine somehow (I always have a dry channel from wither to back of the saddle over the spine & pressure tests showed no pressure in this area at all) but there isn't a definite channel over the spine like you'd have with a treed saddle or the SBS treeless.

You can order the freeform with different seat sizes for the rider but the overall length of the saddle stays the same.

[Blossom]

My dartmoor treefree has a gullet/channel running up the underside of the saddle which provides spine clearance. You can get different sized pommels as well and Tom can even make a made to measure one. Both the pommel and cantle are fibre glass. My mare goes lovely in it and it is so comfy. I have a suede seat on mine but you can buy replacement seats, you can have a thicker one or a leather one.

It's great.

[Yann]

I stand corrected regarding the Treefree and spine clearance:)

Sounds a nice saddle, obviously quite a bit more developed than the Fitform was.

[cazrider]

Maybe not a pony, but nearly so, my welsh section D is ridden in a treeless, a Freeform, and he's absolutely fine in it. It doesn't have spine clearance, just wither clearance, but given that you're not putting a piece of wood (tree) on his back, and the numnah doesn't have a seam on the spine, is it that vital? He's never shown any signs of a problem since April when I bought it. Bebe is right, he sometimes sweats up like any horse, but never down his spine.

My Freeform is black leather,and looks fine, I think, although not as conventional as the Heather Moffat one. It does look more conventional than the Fitform did or the Torsion does. I understand it's Ok to use for dressage or the show ring, but I must admit I haven't put it to the test.

Drummer's mum, I also have the fat bum effect, and found the 18in seat is absolutely fine for me! The advantage of having a saddle with an interchangeable seat! I sound like a walking advert ..I don't mean to, just am very happy with my saddle.

[Drummers mum]

No, thats fine advertise away! I just want to get this right, I wish I knew someone with one I couls borrow to try, I'm very worried that they are going to swamp Drummer!!

[cazrider]

Pity you live so far away from Essex, or you would be welcome to try it. Most of the others on my yard have at one time or another!

[Roseanne]

Thanks for all your replies everyone. I'm making this posting short as once again I can't seem to post a longer one, although it was only a few short paragraphs long!

Sometimes I could throw my computer out the window :) :)

Roseanne

[KarinUS]

I just wanted to mention that if you are thinking of buying one you might consider a larger seat size than the one you are trying.
From the picture it seems like you are sort of sitting on the cantle?
About towards the middle of the page are instructions (http://www.gotreeless.com/info.htm) on how to determine seat size. :)
Good Luck with your saddle search. :)

[virtuallyhorses]

Umm one quick comment - KatieB in the photo you have posted you look like you are sitting on the cantle :eek:. In treeless saddles you need to sit between the pommel and cantle - not on the cantle. It looks like your legs are so short (stirrups I mean, your legs look long :) ) that it is pushing you back in the saddle. In order to sit correctly in a treeless you need to have a really correct (classical) seat - this means WIDE hips, upright posture and long legs. If you sit like this then you are pressing the cantle (in the torsion a fibreglass block by default) into the horse's back - ouch! Try sitting in it without stirrups and then adjust them to your new position. My bum is much larger than yours and I fit in a 'standard' torsion so you should easily :)

[katieB]

This is a bit of an old thread! Thanks for the suggestions anyway but I never did get a Torsion, dont think they were the saddle for me.