Treeless Saddles - expensive

[virtuallyhorses]

I become curious about the treeless saddle trend and decided to take a look at the local Torsion site (I think they're the only local ones). I was surprised to see how expensive they are. Given that these are basically 'sewn' items I would have thought that they would have been produced at a similar sort of cost to something like outdoors equipment - climbing, camping, sailing - things that require strength, good quality materials and have a certain requirement for safety etc but are essentially cloth or leather sewn together and could therefore be manufactured in any quality sewing factory once the templates are produced.

The Torsion however is more expensive than many good quality leather saddles. Furthermore many of the accessories are VERY expensive - the girth being something like 10x as expensive as a 'normal' girth...apparently because they've put 'non standard' sized buckles on them (poor design in my view).

I know these are niche products at the moment and that potentially costs and prices will come down but does anyone else look at some of these and think HMMMMN.....

[Bebe]

I can't fully understand why the Torsion, etc are so expensive. Lots of people argue it's the design time, effort, etc that pushes the price up but I'm not sure. I think probably what keeps the price up is that people will pay it. In my case I went treeless because at the time I could see no other option. I imagine that I wasn't the only person in this situation and to a degree you're over a barrel with the price if it's your only option.

Not all the accessories are hugely expensive, the numnahs for the Fitform/Freeform are £40 including postage which I think is veyr reasonable as they're half lined with real sheepskin. The Torsion & Dartmoor treefree numnahs are extortionate though!

[No_Angel]

When I first heard people on here talking about there treeless saddles I had a look because I was interested and I couldn't belive how expensive they were, I would pay that much for a treed saddle! And thats got more to it! Lol.
I have recently found a cheeper type and just last night purchased my own. I decided on this because I have been looked at treeless for around two years and liking what I have read about them and seeing how my horse now goes, (quite choppy compared to her amazing floating long trot in the field) I have decided to take the plunge.
I think that a childs saddle or a donkey pad are the closest thing you can buy without purchasing the real thing, although they will apply pressure to the spine.

[Alibi]

I have a Torsion and yes it is a big layout, but the quality of the product is fantastic. I paid £840 for the package, an endurance type saddle, saddle pad and leather girth, which i didn't think was unreasonable. A seconf leather girth only cost £40, which i cheaper than most leather girth of similar quality. The pads are expensive but i've washed my time after time and each time it comes up looking brand spanking new, not mis-shapen or lumpy like some pads do.

One saddle fits 4 of my horses (who can say that about a treed saddle?), i will never need to buy another saddle for them, even if they do change shape, they don't need to be re-flocked twice a year and my horses move better in the Torsion than any other saddle i've ridden in.

With the Torsion you also get 3 years warranty and they will carry out any repairs and provide you with the same model saddle you have whilst they repair it. The lady who sold me the Torsion was fantastic, i must have e-mailed her 25 times with various questions, which she thoroughly answered each time, she even travelled from Scotland to do a demo for us, only charging us the same amount a local saddler would charge for a visit.

At the end of the day i believe that you only get what you pay for.

Virtuallyhorses - have you tried looking overseas to see if you can get one cheaper?

[Wally]

Don't know about the Torsion but the materials in an SBS are very expensive.

The foam alone is a terrifying price.

The tree in an ordinary saddle I suppose is about £25-45 sepending upon the make and type. The foam and felt that goes into some treeless saddles is quadruple this.

Okay, so you strain up the tree, that's something that doesn't have to be done in a treeless, but you still have a lot of construction time in building any saddle.

Treeless have only come about as they have thanks to the properties of modern materials, and modern materials don't come cheap. Saddlery felt too is a terrifying price.

[tasha]

I nearly didnt get my Flexion because of the price. Had a think about it and realised that it will last me for life and save me money in the long run-no restuffing etc and when I breed/get other horses etc I can use it on them too. Thing is, with a Flexion you dont need other products with it though-yes I had to get a dressage girth, but any dressage girth does the trick, and I am also buying a Hi wither numnah but I understand that not everyone needs one with it.

In fact I'm going to leave my Flexion in my will!!!!

[Janice Corbett]

Surely it's like asking the question why is a BMW more expensive than a Fiesta when they both have engines, wheels, seats and a body???

[tasha]

Being a proud Fiesta owner myself I cant see why anyone would want a Beemer, but I like your analogy Janice!

[Jay.o]

I bought my fitform secondhand for 400 including the saddle, two numnahs and three girths; one humane which i dont like, one padded neoprene one and the torsion one. The torsion one is the one I use all the time, I love it. On the website it is 117 so I got a great deal with my lot.

I dont think they are any more pricey than a treed saddle. No saddle fittings every 6 mnoths + call out, no restuffing, no nothing. I know my saddle will fit to Mysy no matter if she is under-muscled or toned up :D

I am saving up for the Flexion SBS though. I like the design (conventional looking) so I can show and whatnot in that one. Plus it's a more 'up-to-date' treeless. I am planning to get that next year though.

[katieB]

I am considering getting a Flexion, I have one coming on trial at the end of the month and I see it as a wise investment. It is a lot of money but if I total up what ive already spent on 2 saddles, all the straps, girths etc, saddle fittings, reflocking blah blah id probably be able to buy 2 Flexions now! Im really hoping we both get on with the flexion as it will be a great piece of mind.
I can see what you mean about the price though, just how much time and effort can possibly go into something to justify a price like that? ;)

[galadriel]

I've been talking to someone who says she's been involved in the *re*design of the Cashel "Soft Saddle." It's still not remotely a saddle--more like an elaborate bareback pad, but then so are many of the treelesses. But apparently they've fixed most of the things that I disliked about the SS, and so it's become a pretty decent pad to use if you're just trying to cushion your weight/make riding a bit more comfortable for both you and the horse. And as compared to most of the various things out there, the SS is really cheap.
http://www.saddleuptack.com/webcat/items/item1101.htm

I will hopefully get my hands on one of these soon and have a chance to eval it. I'm really looking forward to it. Only problem is if I get my hands on it, I may not be able to send it back ;)

I also eval'd a "Barefoot" saddle recently. It had decent spine clearance and even wither clearance on all the horses we put it on *except* Kat. Kat has extremely prominent and narrow TB withers. It didn't do much with weight distribution, but it was at least some better than straight bareback. It's not quite so expensive as some of the other options.

There's one called the "Rebecca" that's also rather inexpensive, but I don't know anything more about it.

[Janice Corbett]

It's not just about time and effort, it's also about materials, and it's about making something that lasts and that will not collapse/fall apart - but ultimately it's about what you plonk on your horses back to hold YOU in place when you clamber onto it then start wobbling about and the effect that has on your horses back.

[Remmy]

Another vote for the Cashel Soft Saddle! We have the largest stock of them in the UK too. A really super little saddle/pad. If you wanted to give your horses back a rest or 'try' out the treeless route, then what better way to do it.... and without spending a fortune in the process. We also keep the Trekker Talent which is pretty much like the Barefoot. Again, another really great, cost effective treeless saddle :D

[virtuallyhorses]

I have to admit that one of the reasons I thought about this is because I am about 2/3's of the way through Aime Tschiffley's book and in the very start he describes the 'saddle' that he rides the journey in.

It's not treeless because he describes a basic wooden frame with leather stretched over it being in there somewhere (which sounded similar to one of the modern 'treeless' saddles which has some wooden bits in it) - but it certainly looks more like a treeless saddle in shape than a modern saddle and you seem to have to 'construct' it somewhat yourself as you put it on the horse - loads of layers of pads etc that he used as his bed\pillows at night...

It started me mentally totting up the modern retail prices of the components (sheepskins etc) I could see\read about and then compare to modern treeless and treed saddles and then on with some mental musings from there. ...found a (rather bad) piccie so you can see what I'm wittering on about

http://www.thelongridersguild.com/wpe6.gif

Interesting to get your views - the point about being able to use then on multiple horses, is of course an excellent one. :)

[sanna]

It is all part of the product life cycle

www.netmba.com/marketing/product/lifecycle/


I am hoping as treeless becomes more popular that the prices will decline. :D

[cazrider]

I suppose it depends on your point of view, but I'd say that if a saddle fits your horse, as my Freeform does mine, that he's happy in it and moves freely, that it's comfortable for you and doesn't need several attempts at "fitting", then it's not too expensive is it?

Personally I'm happy to have paid for an Italian leather saddle that looks great and means I can feel Sennie moving underneath me and does away with having to have a piece of wood between him and me. How natural can that be?

Treeless saddles do use new materials, and I think will eventually replace the traditional saddles that are available, just as soon as people start using them for higher level competitions. Could be being optimistic here:)

Could I also add I'd pay some to have my saddle fit into the boot of my car without having to worry about breaking the tree. Might seem like a small thing but it's very useful. The Freeform virtually folds in half!

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Remmy
Another vote for the Cashel Soft Saddle!

Ooh, I'm glad to hear that you like it. Now I REALLY need to get my hands on one and play with it some.

[clairev]

I have a Torsion and yes it is a big layout, but the quality of the product is fantastic. I paid £840 for the package, an endurance type saddle, saddle pad and leather girth, which i didn't think was unreasonable. A seconf leather girth only cost £40, which i cheaper than most leather girth of similar quality. The pads are expensive but i've washed my time after time and each time it comes up looking brand spanking new, not mis-shapen or lumpy like some pads do.

One saddle fits 4 of my horses (who can say that about a treed saddle?), i will never need to buy another saddle for them, even if they do change shape, they don't need to be re-flocked twice a year and my horses move better in the Torsion than any other saddle i've ridden in.

With the Torsion you also get 3 years warranty and they will carry out any repairs and provide you with the same model saddle you have whilst they repair it. The lady who sold me the Torsion was fantastic, i must have e-mailed her 25 times with various questions, which she thoroughly answered each time, she even travelled from Scotland to do a demo for us, only charging us the same amount a local saddler would charge for a visit.

At the end of the day i believe that you only get what you pay for.

Virtuallyhorses - have you tried looking overseas to see if you can get one cheaper?

Alibi - please could you tell me contact details of lady who you bought your Torsion from please. Many thanks - Claire