Horse Haven - Advice Please!!!

[Holistic Horse]

Would really appreciate an outside view..... please help.

I am currently looking a setting up a holistic/natural horse livery/learning yard where it's all about the horses.
Keeping horses in there natural herd enviroment and helping both horse and rider to communicate and create a bond.

All horses will be kept natural and if no road work without shoes, checks to see if horses need worming rather than dosing every 6 weeks.

Running talks for riders and inviting quest speakers to come and talk about parelli and herbology and how reflexology massage can help bond with your horse. Also offer group session where riders get together just to discuss problems and try and solve issues as a group which you could even bring your horse along to.

This is the general idea, a yard where the horse comes first, not what boots or rug he is wearing.

Does this sound something that would interest people?? Advice needed before spend all my savings on getting this set up.

Thanks Guys:D

[Alibi]

I think its a great idea and with more and more people looking to keep their horses as naturally as possible i think it would prove popular.

Could you provide quality turnout, good hacking and a decent size arena to work in too? All for an affordable price per month?

What area are you thinking of setting up in?

[Esther.D]

Sounds great and yes people would be interested..BUT just a cautionary tale...there was a Natural Horse Play Park set up near us last year which was almost identical to what you suggest. It was brilliant and had all the facilities for Parelli type work and had visiting speakers etc in. However it had to close down totally a couple of months ago as the cost of the insurance was prohibitive, apparently it is almost impossible to insure these centres. Don't ask me wahy I don't know the particulars but I would hate you to go the same way and lose all your savings :( Also bear in mind you would need to conform to the new regulations on livery yards that are coming in (again I don't know what they are but I know they would affect you).

Fantastic idea and the one near us worked like a dream until it was closed totally by the insurance issues :(

[Holistic Horse]

This was my first posting, so thankyou for the reply!!!

Looking to find about 20 Acres in the Surrey area, with local hacking and a school, this is the plan anyway but land down here is hard to find. Going to ring around all the local farmers and see if they have anything.

The plan is to have a limited number and stables which will be used when horses need to be bought in maybe due to illness etc, and other than that a training room where we can have meetings and talks and also somewhere people can just chill out and have a cup of tea.

Going to try and keep costs to a minimum as with horses living out dont see how you could charge alot for livery, just going to try and cover rental costs.

If you have any ideas about other services then please let me know. :p

Thanks

[Alibi]

Oh & Hi & welcome to NR Holistic Horse!!!

I would have thought the hardest bit about setting something like this up would be finding the land at a sensible price. Good luck if you decide to go ahead with it!

Esther.D, was it purely insurance reasons that closed the play park or do you think a certain "You Know Who" have something to do with it???

[Holistic Horse]

Who is 'you know who'???????

Does anyone who what the new regulations are for livery yards???

[Alibi]

Parelli. They seem to be very strict about things / people who associate themselves with Parelli but aren't anything to do with Parelli.

[Esther.D]

I think it was probably a mixture of the two :rolleyes: Such a shame as it was a great place.

[Mehitabel]

i'd be inclined to set up a normal livery yard and then just run it how you want to. it doesn't sound much different from where i am, apart from the talks! IMO, any decent yard puts the horse first.

[Holistic Horse]

See thats the thing about Parelli, I love the idea of it and think that it is a fantastic thing to do with your horse, however they are making a fortune out of it, their courses and equipment is so expensive. It just a pity as most people who are into Natural Horsemanship, arent the ones with the money!!!

There are someother teachers about at the moment which I am going to look into, as I think Parelli level 4 is a little harsh....

If could create a combination, all with what is best for the horse in mind, I hope I will be onto a winner. What do you think???

:rolleyes:

[Alibi]

Originally posted by Holistic Horse
See thats the thing about Parelli, I love the idea of it and think that it is a fantastic thing to do with your horse, however they are making a fortune out of it, their courses and equipment is so expensive. It just a pity as most people who are into Natural Horsemanship, arent the ones with the money!!!

There are someother teachers about at the moment which I am going to look into, as I think Parelli level 4 is a little harsh....



It is expensive but in the end you only get what you pay for, the equipment is very good quality and lessons very educational.

Do you think L4 is harsh or your Phase 4?

[Holistic Horse]

Sorry long day and had enough of being a work now, hence not working.... he he.

Phase 4, sorry, I think they say on the website to use the same force as the horse and then add 4 ounces, well thats alot of force with a horse that doesnt want to play, and me being a bit weedie and all.

I have not got to Level 4 have you?? have only studied Level one, has anyone gone further than this and what did they think???

[Esther.D]

Just on level 1 at the moment.

[Dales_Lover]

Hiya :)

What a brilliant idea for a livery yard!! I'm sure places will be snapped up right away :)

About the if no road work no shoes thing - any horse that goes out hacking may need still shoes on for stony ground ect - the road work is the nicest thing for them un-shod, while hacking on stony/gravelly ground can be hard going for the horses.

Hope this helps :)

[Alibi]

Originally posted by Holistic Horse
Phase 4, sorry, I think they say on the website to use the same force as the horse and then add 4 ounces, well thats alot of force with a horse that doesnt want to play, and me being a bit weedie and all.

I have not got to Level 4 have you?? have only studied Level one, has anyone gone further than this and what did they think???

I believe its how effective you use phase 4, phase 4 used inappropriately can be harsh, phase 4 used at the right time is fair. If horse is using phase 4 on you, what do you do?

And if you keep your training consistantly fair, you shouldn't need to use phase 4 that often. I've passed L1 and workinf through L2 and haven't had to use a phase 4 on any of my horses for quite a while now, but not saying i wouldn't if i felt i had too.

This is a little off topic now, me thinks!

It would be good if you could find a vet who is interested / experienced in holistic medicine, there seems to be more around these days.

Have you looked into the insurance side of things yet?

[cvb]

If I were you. I'd do some "worst case" thinking.

For example, if you don't get initial interest, will you take "non-naturals" to fill the spaces ?

Going shoeless needs to be done carefully and over a period of time, and some horses may have been problems with it. So if someone needs or wants to retain shoes, how will you manage that ?

How will people know how to find you ?

These things tend to take a while to get going - like a snowball effect - how will you cope in the early days when you need to be spending more so people discover you exist, but will have empty spaces ?

Will you take on "problem" horses ?
What if the "herds" you plan don't work as you have the wrong mix ?

and so on

[Moomin]

Your yard idea sounds completely identical to the yard I have just moved my horse to.

[hackedoff]

Ok HH, I give up, do I know you? Am currently at yard yu describe, in Surrey with same name as your handle!!!!

[shirley]

You initial idea of setting up a holistic horse livery yard is a brilliant one.
Why not look at natural horse web sites.
Look at The Savvy Centre in South West, talk to them and see if they have some ideas they could pass on to help you set up. Doing some in depth research. Do some one to one interviews with people at your local saddlerys and see what feedback you get.
You need to know if there is a demand for your services in the area you want to set up in. If not find an area where there is and find land etc there.
Good luck, only wished I lived in Surrey!!! I would probably join.

[Kate F.]

It sounds like a great idea! Having just set up a natural horsemanship centre, I can certainly share some of my experiences in setting up.

1) Budget the whole thing. Then double the budget - and you'll be about right. Everything costs much more than you expect it to -and when you're starting off, you have to fund everything before you get the money coming back. Bear in mind even things like fencing can be very expensive - and if you just have a plot of land, you could be in for major expenses. OK the horses live out, but you still need somewhere to put sick or injured horses - so you will probably need at least a couple of boxes, even if they're just used occasionally. You'll need shelter for the horses, storage for hay, feed, a tack room etc and that could be very expensive if suitable buildings aren't already there. Plumbing - make sure there is some!! Putting in a water supply is a MAJOR expense - but you have to have loos for the people, running water for the horses etc. I took over a place that had been a stables before, and renovated it. It still cost a fortune!

2) Keep your running costs down - and don't expect to be able to live from it, at least at the beginning. You'll either need to keep a "regular job" as well, or have substantial finances to back you through the first few years.

3) Don't spend all your savings. You may need them later. Take financial advice - you may be better off taking a loan to get it going, which you can pay back over a few years, and keep your savings as capital for the inevitable unforeseens.

4) Take legal and financial advice on how to set it up. The insurance may not be a problem if you define it the right way. I'm in Austria, so the law is different here, but here, for example, the Centre is registered as a non-profit members club. This means it is non-taxable, and as a private club, the insurance problem is solved. The big insurance issue is usually when you want to ensure a commercial premises. As a members club, we just need normal private insurance which is a fraction of the price. You can still have events anyone can come to - you just call them "invitation" events etc.

5) It is a huge committment - make sure you have reliable people with the same ideas and ideals to help you out. When you're responsible for other people's horses, there are no days off!

6) I don't have this problem, as I have my "own brand" of natural horsemanship which is heavily based on the system taught by Richard Thompson, and I am one of his approved trainers so can use the name. However, from what I've seen from others, be very careful with using Parelli's name. As mentioned in another post, the Parelli organisation protects their brand fiercely, and you could end up in big trouble if it could be in any way interpreted that you're using the name without authorisation. As you pointed out, they have a lot of money riding on that brand, and don't take kindly to anyone trying to offer the same for less. Of course, they can't do anything if you call it something else. I'd avoid using his name in any written form, and just tell people the sytem you use is "similar to Parelli" - or something like that. There's a guy in Austria who essentially does the Parelli system under his own name - but his carrot stick is green, and called a "cucumber stick"!!!!

7) Think carefully before making rules like "no shoes". It's a bit of a sweeping generalisation. If you make the rule, then want to take someone who has all the right ideas, but their horse happens to have bad feet and needs shoes - you might then have all the rest of your liveries up in arms because they don't want a shod horse in the field.

8) Imagine yourself on your own (everyone else is at a party, has the 'flu - whatever), in the middle of winter, over your knees in mud or snow, humping hay across the field while being mugged by a herd of horses who have forgotten their manners in view of the weather. Then you have to break the ice on the water and you've lost a welly in the mud. This happens not just once - but 3 times a day. Every day.

Still fancy it? Then go for it. I did, and have not regretted it for a moment - but it is tough! :-)))))

I don't mean to be negative - just realistic! :-))

On the phases thing - I think it was Tom Dorrance who said to use as little pressure as possible, as much as is necessary, and NEVER more than another horse would use. The aim is to make what you want the horse's idea. I stand by that.

Good luck if you decide to go with it!!!

[Holistic Horse]

Kate, just wanted to say, thank you for taking the time to post such a thoughtful and lengthy reply.

Is very much appreciated. I will take your advice and use it wisely!!! I hope you and your business have any sucess in the future.

[Kate F.]

Thanks for that - hope it's of some help!

Very best of luck if you do decide to go for it - and if you want to kick any ideas around with someone already in such a project, do get in touch!

I'm certainly not a definitive authority - but am rapidly gaining experience in what works and what doesn't and am happy to share what I've found out! :-))