Ride or long-rein - first time in the arena..

[Esther.D]

Have managed to hire an arena, but it will be the first time I have ever had access to one (Rupert has met them before in his past life but never with me). He will be going on his own in the trailer to a strange place (he isn't hugely bothered by strange places though I have had him away overnight before and he was ok).

He is not all that confident on his own, and can nap badly ridden alone.

So, do I long-rein him - he never naps on longreins and is more confident - for the first time

Or, do I bite the bullet and ride him

I am not sure, he is better on longreins (and is being broken to drive so there is benefit in working him on longreins), but has more issues with riding (napping) which need working on.

Unfortunately I cannot get to the arena all the time, so it is a bit of an occasional outing rather than regular schooling.

He is also getting a new saddle fitted the weekend after, so on one hand I don't want to school in his other one particularly..but on the other hand I don't particularly want to try a new saddle when he has not been ridden for weeks beforehand...

Or do I do a combination of the two? :confused:

[Mehitabel]

long rein for ten minutes then get on.

[Esther.D]

Thanks Es, you must be starting to feel like my personal 'Rupert' advisor after all these threads you have answered for me :o :D

[Miriam]

I'd say the same as Es. Once you find out where in the arena he will nap then you can be one step ahead of him. He may even suprise you and not nap because non of his friends are around

[Esther.D]

He may even suprise you and not nap because non of his friends are around

That is something I had wondered about, I'll have to wait and see :)

If he is going to nap it won't be at a particular part of the arena...we just won't have any forward movement at all...in any direction...:o

[Miriam]

Oh dear. Could Steve walked him on and then drop back. If he tries to nap for Steve just keep your leg on push forward, even if it means turning his head way from him. it's what I have taught people with Rhi when she tries to nap for me

[Esther.D]

just keep your leg on push forward

leg aids don't really work on Rupert :( hence the desperate need for some schooling. We have just about managed to get the idea of leg aids when he is feeling co-operative but when he is napping - no chance :o I originally thought he had just never been taught them...however I am fast coming to the conclusion that it is the other way about - he is 'dead to the leg' and after learning more of his history I suspect as a result of kids booting him on when he napped (I have now learnt that he was known for napping at the riding stables he was at as a 4yr old). So currently legs have no affect at all on his napping, and little affect on his general riding, and I have to ride with a schooling whip to apply aids like I would to a driving horse. Any suggestions for getting over this ignoring of the leg aids welcomed!

He will walk with Stephen but reluctantly and glued to his side.

Considering he goes beautifully on long-reins and doesn't nap at all I suspect a little message might be needed about the fact that I am still boss and can still get after him even from his back. I have a feeling I am hitting a long established evasion here - on long-reins he tried it and a couple of light flicks with a driving whip round his back-end sorted it. He truely isn't 100% confident on his own (even longreined) but I have a feeling I need the equivalent ridden as he has found that napping is a good evasion that leaves the rider powerless. Again suggestions welcomed!

[Miriam]

Only help I can give really is the above as it works for Rhi. Not sure about one which seems dead to the leg. Hopefully Es will be able to help you there. Sorry

Oh something I have just thought. I was told with Rhi as I am driving her to ride with two schooling crops maybe you could try that if he moves without having to be hit with it :rolleyes: As she responds really well though to both legs and driving whip when driven I dont really want to start maybe confusing her. I can also imagine it being a bit dificult ;)

[Mehitabel]

what aids does he respond to? when long reining, is it a case of he naps and you can deal with it, or that he doesn't try?

the thing that springs to mind is one of these reeeeally long schooling whips that stressage riders use to touch right back at the bum - maybe one of those to get him on the backside, where he is more used to aids coming from?

the classic thing for a dead-to-the-leg horse is to use lots of bright and cheery upward tone voice aids, a light leg aid and if the leg is ignored, a sharp schooling whip tap/smack. he needs to realise that he has to respond the first time you ask him and that the consequences of doing so are no fun. on the other hand, with rupert, you also need him to think that being ridden is a Good Thing, so it's a bit of a double bind there.

depends on whether you think at this stage it is still fear, or if he has gotten over his insecurities and would just rather stand still.
must say, from reading your posts, i'm undecided. the long reining being fine makes me think that it's not specifically a confidence thing - he's out in front just the same. but on the other hand with his history, he may just think that Bad Things happen when someone is on board and so he's not risking it.

if he were mine and i was still unsure as to his motivation in napping, i think i'd be starting to get tougher. sort of 'you will get on and do it, and then you'll find out it wasn't such a big deal after all and then lots of praise and actually it might be fun'.

[artemis]

This may sound a bit daft, but have you tried fastening the long reining tape from his girth around his backside, above his hocks,
& back to the girth on the other side. Ride him like that giving only voice aids.

With a bit of luck he won't know wether he's being ridden or driven! You could also ask Steve to give the voice aids from behind.

[Esther.D]

Well it is a combination really....and partially my fault I think.

On longreins (and driving) I am very confident, I enjoy longreining and have schooled on longreins for years. So the moment there is anything approaching a nap on longreins I deal with it without even thinking, flick with the whip and push on (Miriam knows what I mean, I nearly lost her out the back when I did it to Rhi last week when she napped at rubbish in the road ;)), I don't even think, I do it automatically - I have a complete zero tolerance policy with my driving ponies as I cannot afford them to spook/nap in a vehicle so I do not tolerate it.

So although he does not nap on longreins he does occasionally think about it and I just send him on before it can develop into a nap, so I have been viewing it as not napping where you have made me re-examine it..and I think in fact he did think about napping but I kept catching him early enough to pre-empt the nap and now he has bascially given up doing it (he has the occasional wibble but it now manifests itself as a tense look and a bit of a scuttle but he keeps going and doesn't try to nap). Whereas ridden we get what is shown in the pic below...

And as I am a less confident rider than driver I hesitate to deal out the kind of sharp flick I would automatically give him longreining the moment I feel him think about it. Which may be part of the reason I am seeing such a difference.

On the other hand, as you say he needs to see riding as a 'Good Thing', but he certainly takes the pushing on on longreins in good part and it never escalates as far as a nap as I catch it early and send him on, so it never develops into a confrontation which is what we get under saddle. So if I could catch it as early under saddle then maybe we could get ourselves to the same point.

My thinking was the same as yours - get tougher but reward and praise a lot when he co-operates

Aids wise - longreining he responds very well to voice, a very light contact and light whip aids (I am talking a quick flick with a driving whip either on his bum or shoulder or laying the whip along his side to ask for a bend).

Longreining he is textbook, responds to all the aids lightly and correctly and moves beautifully and concentrates well. Ridden he doesn't respond 'properly' to any aid really, he is getting better about accepting a light contact after his longreing, he generally ignores leg aids, rides better when carrying a whip but generally ignores it when you do apply it (have tried schooling whip - not the mega long ones though - and short whip to no avail). You wouldn't believe this was the same feather-light responsive pony that works so well on longreins. He just goes dead to leg and whip..and evades a contact - however he no longer crunches on his bit all the time, no longer shys, and no longer has that tense, stressed face that he used to have when ridden. So I think he is a lot happier under saddle (also great to tack up and mount these days) we just seem to be hitting a brick wall of evasions under saddle that are not there on longreins. It is frustrating as he goes SO well on longreins, better than I ever imagined.

[Esther.D]

Forgot the pic :o Here he is in action, caught mid-nap..

He is in his halter here, but the napping is no different in a bit or halter and is the same whatever saddle he has on...

He doesn't actually rear, he sits back as you see in the pic and then either spins around (which I can stop him doing, I just can't get him forwards afterwards) or he plunges forward or occasionally does a little buck..

[Mehitabel]

i think you've probably got it there!

so get your driving head on and as soon as you feel resistance, bellow 'don't' or something, and use that whip on his backside just as you would from behind. then at the merest hint of a forward movement, lots of praise and back to the brisk and upbeat tone. zero tolerance under saddle as well!

[Esther.D]

Thanks - it is amazing how having to explain the problem to someone else suddenly makes it all so much clearer and easier to tackle :)

I will be brave and zero tolerance at the weekend and report back on progess :D I am actually regaining my confidence ridden (had a big blip last year) so that should help too.

[Wally]

Havn't read any of the other replies but I'd go with what he is calmer with, less of a chance for conflict and scary moments.

Long rein, ...ride after 15 mins....if he gets spooked get off and acheive what you wanted in long reins and go home on a good note.

[JaniceH]

Ben had never been in an indoor arena at all before Sunday, and as he is the Prince of napping whilst longreining and driving, but this is due to insecurity, I knew that there would be good reasons for napping whilst in the arena, if I just took him in there and got him to longrein/work without any preparation.

So what I did on Monday, was take it back even a step further, and that was to just turn him out in the school to wander about, get used to the surface/lights/corners/scary objects stacked up in the corner, he smelt the floor, and investigated everything at his own pace and in his own time. I waited the other side of the wall, but not near the gate, so he didnt associate being with me and the exit. Then Shandy84 and I just walked him around, in the arena, letting him pause whereever he wanted just to look, we left with him after he looked comfortable and happy with walking around with us.

Then I took him back out to his field to think about it all. Consequently when we actually longreined him for the first time two days later, he didnt spook at anything much at all, (and Ben is very spooky normally) and we were able to longrein him without much fuss at all (which was much better for my nerves!!).

So rather than planning on what work you are going to do with him, perhaps it could just be an introduction to a new place and that its not scary. And then if you just lead him around, by the time you longrein him and then ride him, he will be in familiar surroundings. Taking him to a new place and doing something that you know he already naps with (riding) may be more pressure than he can deal with at once.

Just a thought and obviously you know Rupert better than anyone. :)

[Miriam]

Originally posted by Esther.D
(Miriam knows what I mean, I nearly lost her out the back when I did it to Rhi last week when she napped at rubbish in the road ;)), I don't even think, I do it automatically - I have a complete zero tolerance policy with my driving ponies as I cannot afford them to spook/nap in a vehicle so I do not tolerate it.

And as I am a less confident rider than driver I hesitate to deal out the kind of sharp flick I would automatically give him longreining the moment I feel him think about it. Which may be part of the reason I am seeing such a difference.





Yep suprised I returned to the yard with them. Thought I was going to have to walk it a few times ;)

Less confident rider than driver I know that feeling too :D

[lawgirl]

I ditto what "ES" wrote. However, please do not think me ignorant here, but what exactly is "napping"? Is this a term used outside the U.S? I am sorry everyone, I have never heard that term.


Thank you, all have a wonderful day.

Wendy

[Mehitabel]

i tihk you say 'barn sour' or 'buddy sour' in the US. essentially it's not wanting to go on, trying to turn round and go home. often past something scary, but sometimes just for the hell of it.

[lawgirl]

ES, well thank you. My gelding did that once, right after I bought him. But that is when I also discovered that the bit was hurting his mouth due to those wolf/canine/milk teeth were coming in. Now he goes fine. So,,,I guess I also have experienced the "napping/barn sour" thingy.

Thank you again for telling me that, I have learned all kinds of new lingo on here, but usually if I keep reading I can figure it out, that one had me puzzeled.

Have a great day.

Wendy

[Esther.D]

So rather than planning on what work you are going to do with him, perhaps it could just be an introduction to a new place and that its not scary. And then if you just lead him around, by the time you longrein him and then ride him, he will be in familiar surroundings. Taking him to a new place and doing something that you know he already naps with (riding) may be more pressure than he can deal with at once.

Funnily enough I have had him away twice, both times overnight and within a week of each other - he was away from home two weekends in a row. And he was totally unfased and did not bother in the slightest (he is a funny creature :rolleyes: :D). He even did a whole Parelli training weekend working in a totally new environment with totally new horses and was identical to how he is at home, totally unfased but acted in exactly the same way as he would have done at home. So I am not too worried about him being upset by the new surroundings :)