On trhe Bit/in an outline...help required!

[xrachelx]

Hi,
I have only managed to get any horse in an outline twice. I know that your supposed to move your fingers about on the reins and to ride 'from leg to hand' but i cant seem to get the horses to stay like it. Anyone got any ideas?

[aliw]

I have a problem holding the outline too! There would probably be a thread about this in the dressage section - have a wander over there!

[kedwards]

In the other post, you mentioned that your upper body tended to be too far forward. It is very hard from that position to do what you are trying to do, as your arms aren't connected with your seat the way they will be when you get your upper body back.

Also, if he tends to lean on the reins, then it will be harder for you to bring your body up and deepen your seat while concurrently trying to "get him on the bit." Let the reins go a little, get the seat first, then you'll be in a better position to move him into steady contact.

[Scarlett 001]

For me it was the combination of body position (shoulders back with no slumping or tilting forward), arm position (maintaining a steady position with the elbows correctly placed at my sides), plus good use of leg aids and half halts. It took months to get this all working at the same time, but as soon as it all worked out, Angel (the horse I ride) just dropped her poll and got into a fine rhythm! :)

[Bay Mare]

The way my dressage trainer teaches is:

NOT to twiddle with the reins as this isn't giving the horse a contact to work into as you're constantly moving the 'goalposts'. You can, however, squeeze and release the rein if the horse tends to lean on the bit.

Keep a consistent rein contact, not too strong, that the horse can come towards.

Use your legs to get him/her moving forwards, the rein contact will stop him running out of the front end.

Work on corners, leg yield, 1/4 walk pirouettes etc will get them to bring their back legs underneath them better.

You also mustn't forget to allow the horse to stretch out occasionally, it's not just about winching the head in :) (something that you see far too often unfortunately).

Exercises where you change the bend on the long side can help some horses (flex to the inside, go straight, flex to the outside).

There's a multitude of things that will help different horses. It's worth playing to see what works for your particular horse :D

[maria9657]

No idea sorry, I don't do dressage, although I think it is beautiful.

Just wondering do any of you guys have a picture or can you describe a dressage frame. I see it often here on the boards but have never really understood what it is.

Thanks so much.

[xrachelx]

I think i'v cracked the whole leaning forwards thing. I got my friend to watch me ride yesterday and she said that i didnt lean forwards once! I think it was because i was putting the effort in and concentrating soley on it.

Thanks for the reply everyone!

[Scarlett 001]

Originally posted by maria9657
Just wondering do any of you guys have a picture or can you describe a dressage frame. I see it often here on the boards but have never really understood what it is.

These are a few web links about dressage riding - and the articles contain a few pics showing the horse in a dressage-type outline. These may not be "perfect" examples - I put the web links here as these articles happened to be handy. So perhaps someone who knows more than me (I am a very beginner dressage rider!) can comment and use these pictures as at least a starting point.

The idea is that the horse drops his/her poll, the head should not stick forward but drop down closer to a vertical line. In all of this, the horse will be working through the hindquarters and should not fall on the forehand.

http://www.equisearch.com/magazines/dressagetoday/correctcontact_041304/

http://www.equisearch.com/magazines/dressagetoday/trotlengthen_100504/

[Dales_Lover]

Work on circles, serpentines, more circles etc etc - your horse will come more easily onto the bit and on an outline then, as if he is working properly on the circles his hocks should come under and engage properly.

[Tina&Dale]

Given that a horse is sound, all of its problems can be traced back to some failure on the riders part. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but something to be very aware of! It is important to note that although you will rarely ever ride "perfectly", one should always aspire to achieve this! So that said, I would advise you to ensure you are riding correctly! This is not only checking your aids, but also your overall position.

I will add in here a note that, you will not get a horse round unless he is relaxed, moving forward and working into a contact. Oh, and there is a whole book I could write on the above matters because they're so often miscontrude..... but I wont!!!!!

One of the areas I've been working on lately is my hands and there have been some phenomenal improvements! Now, my hands are genuinly quiet, and I'm not overbearing. However, I have recently discovered an exercise that has shown up how uneven they are...

Ok, so there is some argument on this point I believe, but the school that I subscribe to indicates that your rein contact should be even at all times! This is actually quite difficult to achieve as everyone is naturally one sided! A way you can check is to hold a whip under your thumbs when riding. You will easily see if your hands are uneven and can correct it. It will also steady them and can help you develop a more stable position.

Another little addition which I feel is every so valuable!... A common misconception is that the aids need to be exagerated movements of the body. This is a sure way to unseat yourself and will destroy the positive attitudes that a correct seat creates, as well as unbalancing the horse.

The following is another good exercise to use in your warm up and periodically thoughout your work to get the horse to engage his hind legs is to ride small circles 15 meters and smaller (this is not spiraling, but deliberate and seperate circles).

These are some of the exercises I've been using with great result and I hope they can help you.

On a concluding note, in the interest of good horsemanship I would like to quite bluntly say that... if the horses pole isn't the highest point, than your horse is not working correctly! I don't mean to be branded and upstart, but regardless of what you see the country's professional riders accepting, it is never right unless the pole is the highest point!

A good website for information on correct framing : Click here! (http://www.kahlin.net/noir/dressyr/index/index.php) (I would also point out that some of the pictures of rider positions and horses frames on this site (not specified as good or bad) are also bloody awful!)

;) Goodluck

[eventerbabe]

A horse has got to be moving forward correctly to work into an outline. fiddling with your hands just creates a false outline which may look nice but is not correct. you need to get the horse using its hind legs correctly i.e. getting his hocks underneath.

[can't_decide]

saying all of this about not "fiddling with the hands", in my (admittedly humble!!) experience some horses work better into a contact like this - not constantly moving the contact but not giving a consistent hold. some seem to just lean on this, no matter how well they are working otherwise, whereas some, as has already been said, need a very consistent hold.

just thought i'd add that thought, as all horses seem to work better through different levels of contact and, though the principles remain the same and the horse's head should never be tugged into position leaving back hollow and hocks trailing, ecah horse will respond to a different method.

[Yann]

It's also worth pointing out that if the horse is uneducated or not used to working this way then any amount of correct riding won't get them into an outline without some effort. Horses find it hard work going like this, and if they're not used to it often resist.

If you're on a school horse that gets to scoot round with its nose poked out most of the time, then it isn't likely to go onto the bit just because you're asking nicely:)

[FreedomStar]

you should not have to hold the frame for your horse, you want your horse to be able to carry that frame him/herself. Start by making sure that your horse is straight, or if it's on a circle, the make sure the horse is bending using his WHOLE body, not just part. You need your horse straight to be balanced, and balance is a key part in getting the horse 'on the bit'. Then, make sure that your horse isn't leaning on you.

If you feel that your horse is leaning, then try a little test. Ask your horse to halt. If your horse stops dead on, without pulling, or feeling extremely heavy in your hands, then great. If you feel yourself pulled forward, or as if you've been whiplashed, or you feel your horse lean into your hands to brace for a halt, then ask for a back up until they yield by releasing the weight and dropping their head a bit, and immediately drive the horse forward into that. You want the horse to understand that when he releases the weight you've got and carries himself into a frame, you reward him by releasing the hold you've got, and you drive him forward into that immediately to ensure that he understands.

When your horse understands this part and starts off light almost right away, without you starting from the beginning, then congratulations. it'll be far easier now to ask for a frame since the basics are all there. There MUST be a reward for even the smallest thing your horse has done that you wanted, releasing the reins, letting off your leg pressure, etc. They'll connect the reward with what they just did.