topline on neck needed- HELP

[rache]

Hi all

As you know baz is an ex race horse, and people tell me that i will never get the muscle that a general horse will have, but i want to proove them wrong i mean i have so far. He is working correctly etc but his neck just wont thicken up like other places, i mean it has but i need more and would like to know if there are any exercised when ridden, on ground etc i can do.

PLEASE HELP

Rache n baz

[rache]

take it no one wants to help me!

or am i invisable?

[Lgd]

Just a lot of correct work to build up the muscle. It takes a long time to get a big neck on TBs - Peri has a pretty good neck now at 15yo but it has taken 7 years of intensive dressage training to get it.

[Yann]

Feed can make a difference too, Rio was doing a fair bit of appropriate work but not building much muscle anywhere. I introduced some conditioning cubes into her ration and it's made quite a difference to her already. Of course being a Tb your chap may already be getting plenty of feed but it's something to consider?

[helenc]

You definitely can end up with a nice, muscled neck on a TB but it does take a while as most of them have thin necks to begin with. If he's working correctly then it will come but it won't happen overnight.

[clipclop]

I am in the same boat as your self at the moment.

I have been doing quite a bit of lunging. Will your horse lunge?

[Sophini]

If you're lunging a lot and/or have some one experienced around you could try using a Pessoa training system which helps with correct topline muscles. A bit complicated to put on but will help suggest a correct way of going without using any force and it encourages hindquarter engagement as well.

It does take time to build up any sort of muscle (think of personal experience eg. when playing sport/riding after a break/running) and your horse will ache a lot so might enjoy a good massage once or twice a week :)

[derby day]

Hey!

I find lungeing/long reining D in side reins helps a lot as does conditioning + sugarbeet :D Also giving him a probiotic helps as it aids his digestion so he can absorb all the nutrients. He has so much muscle everywhere except his back and neck :rolleyes: It has got a lot better since i got him as he looked like he had an ewe neck when we got him! But we still have a long way to go (lack of school doesnt help though!) :o Good luck!

cat + derby xxxx

[**Krista**]

I have been using a bungee with mine.. it has really helped him start to use his muscles in his neck, back and hind legs. We've only been using it since September but there is already a massive difference! Plus, because of its design, it isnt as restrictive as other aids.

[xrachelx]

Always feed hay from the floor instead of in haynets this will help build up the muscles at the top of the neck as the horse is having to stretch down. When you give haynets the horse is reaching upwards so is building the muscles underneath

[Wally]

Don't resort to gadgets, you can get results without them and the horse will be more relaxed in the long run.

We bought a mare who had been ridden VERY, VERY badly in tölt, she was 13 and spent her entire life tölting with her ears up the nose of her rider, this is how some folk still ride tölt. AS a result she had a concave neck, I jest not, the view you had from her back was scary, her neck actually dipped horrendously!:eek:

I put a ban on her ever tölting again (for the forseeable future anyway) and she has been worked, mostly by novice kids, as corrrectly as possible, BUT is has taken well over a year to reverse the damage done but it is coming. At the ripe age of 13 is the wrong time of life to start major body re-modelling, but it has worked. I hope this time next year she may be able to work in a better out line.

What I am trying to say that it is possible with simple, plain correct work but it will take time, if you rush it you may cause pain and damage to the horse.

Another thing, now she can begin to work in a better outline she smiles as she works now, no boggly white of her eyes any more!;) :D with her ears pinned back.

[eventerbabe]

you don't get a topline overnight. you must be working the horse correctly for the muscles to develop, if they are not developing then he is not being worked correctly.

Please, please do NOT use gadgets, i am in agreement with wally on that point. GADGETS ARE NO REPLACEMENT FOR CORRECT SCHOOLING AND THEY ARE NOT A MIRACLE CURE. i'd ban the damn things. they do so much damage if used incorrectly or in the wrong hands. instead of wasting money on things like that, invest in some lessons.

[Tina&Dale]

Originally posted by xrachelx
Always feed hay from the floor instead of in haynets this will help build up the muscles at the top of the neck as the horse is having to stretch down. When you give haynets the horse is reaching upwards so is building the muscles underneath


Goodness! I don't know who told you that, but I'm sure it's an old wives tale!!

My horse has 24 hour turn out in paddocks and his neck isn't any better than those horses that are boxed for 24 hours! Eating off the ground is something horses are built to do. If it were a strain than I don't think they'd be doing it so often.

Feeding on the ground is a good to ensure draining of the nasal passages but I think you're missing out on valuable training time by waiting for that to build your horses topline!

[xrachelx]

It is not an "old wives tale" it is COMMON SENSE of course the top muscles of the neck are going to develop more if the horse is stretching down.

By the way it was told to me by a BHSAI who also has her BHS stage 4, so I think she knows what she is talking about.

[**Krista**]

I agree that gadgets should only be used properly but i don't feel that its necessary to 'ban them completely'. Obviously they are effective otherwise why would people use them. And they should be used in conjunction with proper schooling. My instructor suggested that i use the bungee and she isn't a gadget queen, she would prefer to not use them but they are useful with certain horses.

My horse has improved ten fold since we started using it. We have also been doing alot of schooling which he has also benefitted from. I wouldn't discount any gadget simply because its a gadget, but if it helps and is used properly.. why not?!

[intouch]

The Pessoa is the only "gadget" that I recomend, and only for short periods at a time, it is not a quick fix but does encourage the horse to engage the muscles needed to strengthen the topline. So long as there is no underlying problem such as foot pain or muscle spasm.

[Tina&Dale]

Originally posted by xrachelx
It is not an "old wives tale" it is COMMON SENSE of course the top muscles of the neck are going to develop more if the horse is stretching down.

By the way it was told to me by a BHSAI who also has her BHS stage 4, so I think she knows what she is talking about.

Ok, Well I'm not out to bash anyone's beliefs, and I don't know what a BHSAI is. However, the principle behind building muscle is to overload the muscle with a weight heavier than it is used to. This forces the muscle to grow stronger and consequently bigger in order to be capable of carrying the increased capacity. So as far as I can see, stretching is futile excerise in "building" muscle.

[Lenvale]

Message deleted

[Tina&Dale]

Lenvale, I don't think your example is addressing quite the same issue. Our arms actually do a lot of "weight lifting" throughout the day, and I agree that repetitions of smaller weights can build muscle (depending on how many reps are done etc.). However, I still disagree that stretching is enough to build a topline.

Perhaps I'm thinking differently to you. I'm assuming rache wants a topline to rival a medium dressage horse rather than just a show hack and in this case it would be completely impossible through stretching alone. I know that's probably not what anyone is implying. However, I have always feed my horse from the floor and he is out grazing for the remaining 23 hours so he does a lot of stretching (all day!). I wouldn't say that it contributed one ounce to his topline development! In fact, most of the horses at my yard are kept in the same manner and a few have very poor toplines!

[aliw]

No-one have a go at me for saying this, but our horses are out all the time, and so are grazing quite a lot, and they haven't got particulary good topline. :D

[Lenvale]

Message deleted

[eventerbabe]

krista, my point was that a lot of gadgets are not used properly and cause more harm than good. i, personally, would never use gadgets on my horse and my instructor is of the same mind. they can in certain cases be useful but they are not a cure all.

[**Krista**]

Eventerbabe, i agree that many people use gadgets to get their horses to look nicer.. but i am not one of them!! There are amny gagdets that i wouldn't ever use, i dont believe in fixing a horse into a certain position, that does no good at all. But many gadgets work really well when used with proper schooling to encourage the horse to use all his muscles and not rely on his forehand. Before i started riding mine, he relied on his forehand and wasnt using his back end at all, so he was completely unbalanced and a mess to ride! Lucky me!! But with some decent training (and the bungee) he has turned into a completely different horse. We tend to try something in the bungee and then once he has it we do it without.. its a lot of hard work and ive put alot of time and effort into getting him right. I'm not a gagdet queen but i would never discount the fact that they often work!

[chev]

The point is not that ground feeding will build the correct muscle but that feeding from a net (or anything above ground level where th ehorse has to reach up to eat) will build muscle incorrectly.

Incidently, feeding from nets can also cause poor muscle development in the jaw and other areas of the neck too - and uneven tooth wear, where they 'tug' sideways to get the hay out. I think it was Es who was shown the effects by a horse dentist.

Stretching is an important part of keeping muscle healthy - a horse that reaches down to eat also lifts his head to look at things and moves around - his head will go up and down countless times during the day, giving his neck and back muscles a really good aerobic workout. A horse who eats from a higher level won't do that, and as a result his muscles don't get such a good toning.

So while ground feeding can't be used to build muscle, it does play an important part in preventing the incorrect development of muscle and in keeping the muscle toned and healthy.

That is far from being myth....

[Mehitabel]

Originally posted by xrachelx
Always feed hay from the floor instead of in haynets this will help build up the muscles at the top of the neck as the horse is having to stretch down. When you give haynets the horse is reaching upwards so is building the muscles underneath

'stretch' rather than 'build up' and it's dead right. eating from a haynet does build up actively the muscles under the neck as the horse is actively using them to pull the hay out of the net with head up.
eating from the ground is more passive, it stretches all the muscles along the topline which helps them to recover from the strain of working and stretch out any cramps. horses are designed to have their heads down, as well as stretching muscles, mucus can flow down and out of the nose instead of back down the throat.

or, what chev said - i hadn't read the second page of the thread when i quoted the post. and it was me who was shown the effects on teeth by an EDT, very noticeable.