Keeping your wits when it all goes to pot!

[Tootsie4U]

Its been three times now that I've come off my horse since I've had him. The third time was yesterday.

Started the day extremely well. After accessing his level of 'safesty', we started walking down the lane - out on the track - out to the field, into the forest a bit. So far so good. Great in fact. We were having a real fun time jumping ditches and going up and down hills. A little while later, we turned back to go home.

Once we got back to the big field where you can see the pastures from a distance, he must have gotten sight of his field mate because when his ears perked I looked up and caught a glimpse of them bringing Aspen in for the night. Thats the only thing I can think of that caused the following:

He began to prance a little. No big deal, I still had enough of his attention that I was able to turn him away and do some drills to calm him down. When he seemed better, I turned him around toward the pastures again. He lept into trot. Still not a big huge deal as I was able to circle him around and do some more drills. Then I turned him around again but before letting him walk off, I did some give to the bit tests, which he did fine. But the second I relased that rein, he blew up!

I do believe it was the first time he's ever bucked on purpose! Quite a shock, actually! He bucked five times maybe and I managed to stay on but then he took off at 900 mph.

Now, theres a trend I am noticing. I understand and have practiced (in a controlled environment) the one rein stop. But, in each of the three times I've come off the horse, in addition to several other times coming off other horses, its always been because I hit the emergency eject button. I dont even try to stay on. I dont even try to stop him. I just bail out.

This last time he didnt even look back (he usually stops and comes back so his escape was definately premeditated!). Luckily, he ran straight to the barn and stopped outside but the road is less than 100 feet from the barn entrance. I was sweating it a bit while I watched him run up that way.

So, bottom line - what on Earth can I do to stay in the saddle and ride it out. I feel him pick up speed and I say to myself "Ok, Im outta here" and the next thing I know, I hit the deck. Of course, this is not a good thing to teach my horse either, but its honestly like an instant defense mechanism that Im going to have to learn to override. How do you all keep your wits about you when something like that happens? Its a serious question! Is there something I can practice?

Also, is there anything else I should have done in this case to keep him from exploding? (Im getting pretty good at landing softly though, only a small bruise on my knee where I think he grazed me as he hopped over me - yikes!)

[Esther.D]

Sorry to hear you have parted company :( sounds scarey!

Cant help much as I am of the other school, I was taught that you never ever bail out and you always hold on to the reins (good old traditional Pony Club teaching ;) ). As a result I have never bailed out in my life and cannot actually make myself do it, even if it would be safer. I have been seen hanging around horses necks, under their bellies etc and not letting go :rolleyes: so I have the opposite problem - I don't bail out even when I should, and just like you I cannot make myself change the habits of a lifetime....

[KarinUS]

Im getting pretty good at landing softly though, only a small bruise on my knee where I think he grazed me as he hopped over me

There lies your problem. ;) I used to do exactly what you did. But my last fall was really hard. Cracked the visor on my helmet off, gave me road burn on my forehead, bruises along my hip enough to cover about 200 sqare inches, knots in my muscles big enough to show through my close and make me look like Quasimodo. It hurt. Hurt so bad I just layed on the bed crying once I got home. Had no health insurance at that time so don't know what happened. Ten days later I could still feel it.

That was my last fall. I no longer bail out. If I can help it at all I'll stay on. I just had a bucking/ bolting episode with DJ last week (biggest one yet) and stayed on.

Not sure how you can 'teach' your body to respond though. :(
If it gets really scarey you may have to consider protecting yourself. Get off, take him to the round pen. I think that's one of Parelli's quotes: Know when to get on and know when to get off.

[Tootsie4U]

Hee, that thought was going through my head a half second before he exploded - "I shoud probably get off before this gets too ugly". :D

You may be right Karin. I have little fear in falling off, truth be told my only fear is being dragged. That may have something to do with it. Subconsciously Im thinking I'd rather jump off at my own will than risk being dragged if it does go bad. I wonder if getting some of those safety stirrups would help me.

It has little to do with fear of falling though. As soon as I catch my breath, Im back on board and over it.

So, does anyone have any pointers to give me for things I should have done to prevent the bolt?

[Mehitabel]

long term (you know what i'm going to say!) hack out more. if it's exciting and a change of routine, he'll get excited. if he goes out there every day, it'll become routine and nothing to get worked up about.
he'll have seen everything a thousand times before and nothing will bother him because it'll all be normal.

afraid i'm another 'hang on at all costs' person - and given that, when i do come off it's generally because the horse is really trying and i hit the ground hard - so like karin, i am even more determined to stay put!
also, perhaps as you get more and more experienced and confident, there won't be that 'i'm never going to stay on this' moment, and it won't occur to you to bail out.

[IrisSilverMoon]

I'm a hang on at all costs person too.

Primarily because I don't want to fall off and secondly because I can usually stop the horse before it gets to the point of me considering whether or not I should just jump off.

what sort of one rein stop was this? was it turning ina circle or planting one hand and turning the other fingernails up and raising your hand? I actually prefer the latter as its more likely to work (though i usually only need it in extreme situations) if you do that second one right it should succeed in stopping the horse just about all the time. definately hack out more to get Bon used to it and to teach him he can't just run everytime he goes out. you were doing well I think until you gave him the extra rein (who knew what would happen though? it was supposed to be a reward) I like the idea of working him until he settles and then pressing on. If you give extra rein make sure you can take it up again quickly if you need to, that's probably the most important thing.

[cvb]

Tootsie

is there anything else I should have done in this case to keep him from exploding?

I think he was telling you that he was worried and anxious. Doing the drills tells him he needs to listen and behave, but did you do anything to deal with his anxiety ? Remember these are herd animals so the herd represents "safety" - and in this case he must have ended up deciding that "herd" was safer than "tootsie".

I was at a Leslie Desmond clinic and one of the horses was showing anxiety - so she asked for his pal to be bought in. This is completely different to the "traditional" approach where they'd say "oh he just has to get used to it". Well yes, but we can make that an easier process for him.

(Its that love, language and leadership thing again). How can you make it easier for him to stay with you and be calm ?

How do you all keep your wits about you when something like that happens? Its a serious question! Is there something I can practice?

I don't think its very easy to do a one rein stop when all four of the horses feet are off the floor ! :eek: Bucking in a circle/spin is NOT easy to sit. Did you bail out in the bucks or in the 900mph ?

[galadriel]

Originally posted by KarinUS
Know when to get on and know when to get off.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
know when to talk away, know when to run!

Hee.

Okay, you've already identified that your main concern in such situations is getting dragged. If you can alleviate that concern, it may help you move past it. Safety stirrups are probably a good idea, but also check your stirrup bar to make sure that your leathers slide off if pulled. Incidentally, don't get "peacock" safety stirrups; they're not safe for adults. I was playing with a pair of those flip-out stirrups a few days ago, and they seem very effective.

You could also put a grab strap on your saddle. This can be useful in a pinch but doesn't interfere otherwise. I used to use the strap from flash nosebands (got a million of those sitting around, so many bridles come with flashes now). Just loop it through one D, loop it through the other, then twist it around itself a couple of times and buckle. They do also make nice rolled grab straps specifically for that purpose.

Of course I heartily agree with Es (don't I always?) and ISM's comments about doing this more often :D

[Tootsie4U]

cvb- I bailed about four strides into the 900 mph take off. I managed the bucks - barely. Four strides - I know... what a wimp :D

He wasnt giving me any signs that he had problems being out. Its only when he saw his friend go in (which he never even bothered to look at on our way out or even look back to when we had gone past him) that he decided he was going in too. I dont think he felt unsafe, rather that it was time to eat and he wanted to go in. Could be as you say, but his bolting was more of determination than a fearful spook.

Incidently, I hadn't thought to post it before, but I may have made it worse than it would have been cuz when he started to get fizzy, I got a bit tense cuz there was a herd of geese in the field that we had to go through and I knew that if one flew off, he'd explode so maybe that had a part in it, although it really shouldnt matter too much.

So what would you have done to resolve the anxiety cvb? I know what Harry will say but with the geese and my reservations about a gallop it wasnt gonna happen :D

Iris, My one rein stop is with an opening rein. I dont think I'd try it by pulling up as I think it might flip him over. He understands what that open rein means so it really doesnt take too much effort to turn him. He's the sort of horse that if I did make it a pull and an abrupt stop, he'd get more strung out.

I guess I'll be waiting for newly fallen deep snow to get this fear of excessive speed out of my system :D:D

[Esther.D]

I dont think he felt unsafe, rather that it was time to eat and he wanted to go in. Could be as you say, but his bolting was more of determination than a fearful spook.

I think that is the cause of the problem - his mate was getting fed and he wasn't - that is war in a horsey brain ;) :D Rupert would have had an apoplexy in the same circumstances :D

[Mehitabel]

generally, if in doubt, kick on and give him something to do. so do your circles and drills, but do them at a brisk trot and then send him forward still in that brisk trot in the direction you want to go. take charge of his desire to move and harness it for yourself - if he gets strong in the trot, circle again, get him listening to you and so on, then carry on.

holding them back in a walk often is counterproductive as they think' help mum isn't letting me go where i need to, i'm scared' whereas keeping them moving forward they think 'ok, we are going there, just at mum's pace, she's not making me go somewhere else completely' - a bit like going past a scary monster in a leg yield with head facing way - they don't think you want them to go right up to it and confront it.

[Tootsie4U]

Definately a woulda-coulda-shoulda! If I ever do get to the point where I *can* do that Es, consider me fair cuz I just must not have the guts for it yet :D

Thanks everyone for the wise condolences... Much yet to accomplish with this horse. The journey's never over. :)

[kedwards]

One thing you can do is spin. It isn't pretty and doesn't "relax" a nervous horse. It is much more like a punishment. However, when you need to gain control for safety, it can be very useful. Open one rein (keeping the hand down, so the horse has no inclination to go up) and send him into a spin (not a true Western spin, but just a very small circle) with the outside leg. This essentially overwhelms the horse with your aids.

Also, it might help to do some mental imagery and positive self-talk to change your own approach so that you aren't thinking "bail." Develop and practice a mental image of yourself grabbing a little mane and hanging on.

[Mehitabel]

Originally posted by Tootsie4U
Definately a woulda-coulda-shoulda! If I ever do get to the point where I *can* do that Es, consider me fair cuz I just must not have the guts for it yet :D

i freely admit it is much easier said than done!
do you see the logic of it though? like when i was riding him and he tried it on with a spook at the beginning - if i'd stopped doing anything and tried to stop him in that corner, he'd have thought ' is she mad? she wants me to stop? here? where the monster is? sod that - i'm off!'

whereas i pushed on, gave him something to think about, carried on trotting, circled round the area and before he knew it he'd passed the monster three times without noticing, and decided it couldn't have been that bad after all.

so if he is scared, wanting to get home, seeing the others being fed, he wants to go there. you ask him to walk on a loose rein, you're not giving him direction, you're asking him to dawdle or go slowly, he thinks 'i'm scared, i want to get home, mum isn't giving me any input so i'm taking matters into my own hands'.

whereas if you get his attention back on you rather than the other horses, it's like the spooking in the school, he forgets what he was doing becaue you're distracting him - then when your'e back in control you say 'ok bon, you want to go, that's fine. we'll go home, and we won't hang about because i know you're anxious, but i am in control'.

as i said though - easier said than done and does require nerves of steel the first time!

[laura jeanne]

Can't get that Kenny Roger's song out of my head now.

[KarinUS]

Definately a woulda-coulda-shoulda! If I ever do get to the point where I *can* do that Es, consider me fair cuz I just must not have the guts for it yet

I think once you try it you might actually find it easier than it sounds now. Trying to get them to walk sometimes still leaves you with a horse that's ready to pop any moment.
The brisk trotting in circles seems to have a much better chance of actually getting them back to manageable. At least DJ works that way...

Maybe you could ride out with another horse everyonce in a while- kind of as a treat and to let him explore the new trails with a buddy?

[IrisSilverMoon]

Originally posted by Tootsie4U

Iris, My one rein stop is with an opening rein. I dont think I'd try it by pulling up as I think it might flip him over. He understands what that open rein means so it really doesnt take too much effort to turn him. He's the sort of horse that if I did make it a pull and an abrupt stop, he'd get more strung out.



it should not flip him over, I woudlnt' use this on a horse that was rearing, because yeah they would flip over, but for one that is bucking, its quite an effective way of picking the head up. I think unless the horse is actually rearing it would be pretty impossible to physically pull hard enough to get him off his front end and up and over, especially if you only do it once (i've never had to use it more than once, one hand stays down, the other twists and comes up from the elbow and goes back down immediatly) If he understands the opening rein then go ahead and use it, there's nothing wrong. I tend to use this method because it stops a horse a lot faster, and I've ridden more than a few horses that even though they understand the opening rein in a panic they easily run right through it (imagine stopping a massive oldenburg when he wants to run and not listen, I can't pull his head to the side, but this way I can stop him at least.). A lady i knew used to even have a horse who you could bring his head all the way to your knee and he could still accelerate, he knew the opening rein but chose to ignore it.

In any case, like i said its more of a last ditch effort for a horse that will NOT stop. If he stops other ways don't worry about it, but I would at least be aware just in case.

[Tootsie4U]

Yep, I appreciate all the info I can get :)


*thinking* Its snowing right now, but nothing more than three inches or so, not enough for a soft landing yet....

[horseygal90]

Just a thought... Maybe you need to practice staying on... How about a bucking Bull machine!?

[cvb]

Tootsie - you know I have a "spin-and-depart" issue with my mare. Well your "100 push-ups" approach does help in situations like this.

But don't forget the simple stuff like using your voice, and just stroking his neck by the withers (where another horse would groom - it releases endorphins :D) Touch is a powerful thing with horses.

We used to sing to our first horse, or tell him fairy tales (LOL - got a few odd looks from passerbys !)

Also watch that the "100 push ups" is not aggravating the worry - i.e. move it towards home rather than away. This may seem a bit contrary - we tend to think we have to make the point by going the opposite way - but remember that leadership is not about domination ;)

Leg yield and snake patterns (serpentines) are good for this - cos the overall direction is the way they want to go but the style and manner and detail are what you say they are ...

[On the "touch" thing - I was playing around a bit at the end of a session this weekend. In our arena and doing a kind of mix of passenger and ride the rail. Fi tried stopping, and speeding up - I had my hands on the saddle horn and they definitely tried to lift when she speeded up ! (BAD hands !!!). It was an interesting exercise at all sorts of levels - but the relevent point here is that your "touch" (feel, connection etc) will tell the horse a lot about how you are feeling. And if that "touch" says "oh boy something bad's about to happen !" then the horse is going to head for safety :eek: But you can also use touch in your favour to say "I'm calm, its ok, don't worry" ;) ]

[entreat]

The first (& only) time I tried to stop a bolting horse, I wanted to bail out, but had a fence on my preferred bailing side (isn't that a bad sign already??), and we were heading straight for low branches!! I thought that if I yanked his head around, he'd loose balance & topple head-first, probably squashing me in the process, but I had to do something, those trees were getting closer!! I was leaning fully back on the reins to get him to stop, but he was just charging through the bit. So I slowly managed to open the left rein and give the slightest pressure, and suddenly Cav remembered there was a rider back there!! It was honestly like he forgot I was there! So now i had his attention, and the collision course with the low braches was replaced with a collision course with a tin-shed, I was able to slow him alittle more. We managed to then steer ourselves to safety, and continued at a trot (that looked suspiciously like a series of pigroots at times) until we reached my OH to hold him while i got off (and never got back on him again).

[Harry Hobbes]

Now, theres a trend I am noticing. I understand and have practiced (in a controlled environment) the one rein stop. But, in each of the three times I've come off the horse, in addition to several other times coming off other horses, its always been because I hit the emergency eject button. I dont even try to stay on. I dont even try to stop him. I just bail out.
So rather than "...hitting the emergency eject…" (one-rein stop), drop the transmission into low gear by bending the horse (into a spiral). (He will not be able to run or buck effectively if he is bent.)

The problem with bailing out (or falling off) is that if we do it enough, this becomes a solution for the horse; a solution that the horse may try to implement by bucking, rearing or bolting. Coming off three times is about all it takes to teach any horse that it can get rid of its rider.

The best thing to do is stay on, get the action shut/slowed down and the horse calmed down, then decide whether to continue mounted or using ground work. Remember Lyons' third training rule: "The horse must be calmer after the lesson than before it began." So in addition to neither of you getting injured (i.e., rules one and two), the third rule requires that Bonfire be calmer than when you began.

The thing to do is to observe the third rule in everything you do with Bonfire. Let that rule help you decide to proceed or not to proceed; or to do something else.

If you don't feel right about continuing in the saddle, and that you should get off, then get off as a well-executed normal dismount; pronto; and calm things down from the ground.
So, bottom line - what on Earth can I do to stay in the saddle and ride it out. I feel him pick up speed and I say to myself "Ok, Im outta here" and the next thing I know, I hit the deck.
Practice the Severance Exercise in the arena, but alter it to include wide-sweeping turns (serpentines, Figure 8's, etc.) using one direct rein. The severance Exercise helps you to learn to stay on a fast-moving horse with an independent seat; a skill that you'll need to stay in the saddle. If you have good footing outdoors, then practice it outdoors.
Also, is there anything else I should have done in this case to keep him from exploding?
The common problem with hacking out is that when we return, we are tired and are ready to just get back, get off, put the horse up, and rest. And the horse quickly learns (from our example) that this is the drill. So he helps us achieve that end by running/napping back to the barn. In other words, we often inadvertently teach the horse to get back fast.

The thing to do with any horse is to teach him that we are done not when we reach a place, but when the rider says we're done, so why hurry? This means that you set a pattern of doing more work at the barn, immediately upon returning from hacking. (Hacking should be less work than when he returns to the barn.)

The few times that he does not have to do more work when you return should be the exception, rather than the rule.

Also, when you're returning from hacking, dismount about one mile from the barn (or just inside visual range, which ever is closer), and lead your horse back to the barn on foot. This has several benefits: you both get to relax and calm down before you get to the barn, it is easier to "control" your horse from the ground, and most importantly, your horse only practices walking back to the barn slowly (rather than running). (I do this religiously; it helps everyone's hips.)

If Bonfire acts up while being led back to the barn, then immediately have him do lots of groundwork on the way back to the barn. If bonfire impatiently overtakes and passes you while you are leading him from the ground, immediately require more groundwork. This teaches him patience (among other things).

Do not be in a hurry to get back to the barn; in fact, dawdle.

Next, get really good at Marty Marten's Star Pattern (Problem Solving Volume 1, page 149) or equivalent exercise. Use the barn as the hub of the star. I suggest that you finish each star pattern with at least 15 minutes of mounted work at the barn, so that Bonfire learns that he must go to work every time the returns to the barn, rather than immediately resting and being done for the day. In fact you may wish to do the star pattern prior to each of your riding lesson. (Practice Severance, direct rein spiraling down (see below), and one-rein stop in the arena; then go out and practice the Star Pattern; then come in and do your lesson.)

When you are ready to dismount, you should face him away from his buddies/feed/paddock/barn (have him looking off the property) and ask him to simply stand still for at least one full minute before you ever move to dismount (and also after every mount). (You can see examples of my doing this with Madison in the training tapes.) End of work should always be preceded by you and he just standing there facing away from all the things he wants to be with and relaxing, prior to a dismount. This is actually a calming drill; and he should just stand there calmly for one full minute, or you should not get off. (You may have to spend twenty minutes riding him in circles just to get him to stand still and relax for one minute, but that's okay, because this teaches him calmness and patience.)

When bonfire gets out of control at high speed, bend him into a series of smaller and smaller circles, rather than using the one-rein stop. (Marten calls this "winding down", page 47 of Volume 1.) The benefit of this maneuver is that the horse keeps moving his feet, and you can make the spiral as large or as small as your skill-level permits. If he's moving too fast then you can just spiral him down to the desired speed. (This is akin to dropping the transmission into "low gear.")

Or, if he's charging next to a fence or other linear obstacle, bend his nose into the obstacle to slow him down. (Contrary to conventional wisdom, he will slow down eventually if he is bent -- just like your car will slow down if you drop it into low gear -- so bend him with one rein and hold the bend until he slows to the pace you want.)

In addition, a "buck strap" (also known as a "night latch") is the only tool that is effective at helping you stay down into the saddle. (Saddle horns won't keep you down.) Just about all of the western masters use buck straps: There are old buckaroos, and there are bold buckaroos; but there are no old bold buckaroos. (Personally, I'm working on old, so I have a buck strap on each of my saddles.)

You can see examples of buck straps in the photos of Marten's saddle in both of his Problem Solving Volumes. A large leather dog collar makes a good buck strap. If you're riding in an English saddle, you can probably rig a buck strap via the front rings.

Keep Lyons' Third Safety Rule in mind as your constant training principle (along with the first two) and you'll get him calmed down. Madison was much worse than Bonfire, and she turned out really nice; it was just a matter of working on that calmness in everything we did.

Best regards,
Harry

[cvb]

coincidently the latest issue of the (UK) Savvy magazine arrived yesterday chez moi and has an article on spooking in it.

Interesting Mr.P says that they recommend you don't ride out on trails until you're into L2....

Am personally not riding out (since Jan this year when my mother had a nasty fall as a result of my mare spooking) but do go for walks and play the games around "our" stubble fields and through whatever streams we can find :D

When I was in Sweden and went out on an icelandic pony with a group, they got off well before we got back and walked them all home. It makes so much sense ! Not sure how we'd manage it here with some of the mad traffic locally (pyscho tractor drivers who are wannabe rally drivers :eek:) - but certainly if we're on the farm it would make sense.