LOST ALL CONFIDENCE!! (ranting)

[lollielala]

I woke up this morning happy and ready to ride again. I went out to the pasture and caught my horse, saddled him up and everything, got ready to ride. I got on him and within 2 minutes, he was acting up. He is majorly barnsour and buddysour, and he turns around and starts galloping back to the barn. Today wasn't any different. So after I got him calmed down and started riding again, I had a repeat. He started throwing his head and backing up like I'd never seen him back up before, and then I started getting scared. He even reared up about a foot off of the ground and then started moving his hindquarters in circles and snorting like mad. I finally got him stopped (I was in tears at this point) and I got off before he could start bucking (I've seen him buck - not something I want to experience) He was breathing hard and making noises and I grabbed his reins, took him back to the barn and tied him up while I took off the saddle and bridle. I know this was a mistake, giving him what he wanted but I was really scared. I sat down on the floor and just starting crying. He looked at me like "what's the matter with you?" I took him back out to the pasture and told my mom I never wanted to ride again. Sometimes I wish I would've never gotten him. I chose him over getting a car (I wanted him so bad) and now I feel like it was all for nothing. As I mentioned earlier, the way he bucks would put a PRCA saddle bronc horse to shame. I've lost all confidence and I'm heartbroken because this is NOT the way I wanted it to go. For the past 2 months, I've even avoided riding him down the long trail by myself in fear of what might happen. well I appreciate everyone for listening.. I'm finished now

[Secret Smiley]

(Hugs) I know how you feel, and am very sympathetic to your situation.
Riding is supposed to be fun, right? I mean thats why you spend money and time maintaining your interest in the sport, yes? If it's not fun then you have either of three realistic choices

1. Continue with a horse you do not trust/enjoy

2. Cut your losses and sell out of the sport

3. Accept that this horse is not right for you, sell him and search for another, either to buy or loan. Or perhaps even go back to lessons for a little while.

Number three is most ideal. Having a horse that frightens you is dangerous, and if you do not have the confidence to deal with his behavioural problems you are probably going to get hurt eventually and his manners will continue to get worse.

There is always the option of having some lessons, but i think this would probably not be enough in your situation.

I know it is an extremely hard decision, but you have to look at what is best for YOU. Riding and horses should be fun,.

Good luck and more hugs,
Kylie

[lollielala]

I'm glad someone understands. I agree with what you said and he does scare me a little, I've had him since March and I still get a little nervous when I ride him because of what he does, I just sit there and wonder when he's gonna act up. I don't want to get rid of him, I love him so much but I'm beginning to think that's the only choice. My dad has done so much for me, he bought me this horse, a brand new bridle and is talking about buying me a new saddle. I'll be honest, he gave $1,500 for the horse for me, because I wanted him. I'm not a spoiled brat, but I just don't know how to even begin telling him that I'm starting to feel like he's not the right horse for me. He has been around/worked with horses just about all of his life, and he and I have tried different things but like you said, his behavior only seems to get worse. I'm at my road's ends and I'm just about ready to give up riding and my dream. I just honestly don't know what to do anymore. I've tried spending time with my horse, not riding him, but just me and him, hoping to gain his trust and confidence, but nothing works. I don't know how he was treated from his first owners, but the person my dad bought him from can be rough with horses (he has 3 of his own), he gets switches and things. I've seen him do it with one of his horses, and mine as well (before I got him, and once ever since I've had him, when he tried to help me with him). He doesn't beat them, but he is rough sometimes. So maybe the way my horse is now is because of the way he used to be treated. I just don't know. I'm seeking help from anyone.

[cvb]

He is majorly barnsour and buddysour.... He started throwing his head and backing up like I'd never seen him back up before, and then I started getting scared. He even reared up about a foot off of the ground and then started moving his hindquarters in circles and snorting like mad. He was breathing hard and making noises

OK so something is clearly not right here. Do you have any idea why ? Was he like this when you got him or has it happened since ? Sounds like the horse is also worried and concerned - but is there any hint why (there WILL be a reason - there always is - just not always very obvious !)

I've tried spending time with my horse, not riding him, but just me and him, hoping to gain his trust and confidence, but nothing works.

Hmm - well what have you actually tried ? What did you do to gain his and your trust and confidence ? It clearly didn't work but before we can suggest something else (and there is always something else) we need to know what has been tried already ;)

I have a mare who is 99% gorgeous and 1% impulsive panicaholic. We're working on the 1% ;) I haven't ridden out for almost a year as I just can't take the risk with me, her and anyone else that might ride with me. I've got over 30 years of experience - and I don't think I've tried everything I can try yet so I'm still working on it.

If this horse is 99% panicaholic and 1% ok, maybe you will decide not to take this journey with him. But at least lets think of some ideas first !

[denise42]

I can totally relate :(
I spent time sitting on the mounting block crying AT A BOARDING STABLE How embarassing for a 40something year old.
So what I learned was rather than let my horse get out of working and being away from barn mates all togeather I found another way to work her and in the process restore my courage.
I ended up getting a book on lunging exercises and ground work.
I spent a long time working on the ground with my mare .
And I didn't get back in the saddle until I had her respect , every time I worked with her on the ground. It helped me alot.
Don't give up with horses , just when you think you are at your witts end , often a solution will come your way.

[lollielala]

cvb, I really don't have any idea why, and yes he was like this when I got him, but I didn't know it until I already had him. The previous owner didn't tell me about it, just kept saying, "he's such a good horse" and "this is the perfect horse for you Amanda" as for what I've tried, I haven't tried everything but bribery didn't work. and yes I know thats not a good way to gain a horses trust. I just really don't even know where to begin trying things. 97% of the time, he won't come to me unless I have feed. I've tried to get him without it, and 2 out of 20 times, he actually came. He is stubborn and he gets this look in his eye sometimes. I've rode a couple of horses that aren't even mine that I've never rode before, and it didn't bother me, but I can't even ride my own horse without being scared. What's wrong with that picture? I've never, ever hit or mistreated him, and I would never. But like you said, he is worried or concerned, and I don't know why.

[Evol_or_revert]

Same thing happened to me :( I became scared around any horse and if the horse so much as slightly tripped id be off in a second crying. it's taken me so far 18months to get things just about back together, but if i miss more then two days riding im really nervous when i get back it to.

I would get someone else to look at the horse and tell you what they think. like an instructor. they will be able to suggest what to do about it. There is no point in leaving it as it will get worse!! the more scared you become the more he is likely to misbehave this could lead to someone being hurt.

We had a number of people look at my horse in the end he was sent to a better place, no matter how much i loved him it wasn't worth myself or anyone else getting hurt by him. With my new horse im now riding and competing happily :D

[BackintheSaddle]

Honey is very barn/buddy sour. If she gets bossy or stuborn away from the barn, then I jump off and lunge her on the spot (assuming there is room). If there's not room, then I ask her to back up, yield her hind quarters, move sideways etc. It keeps me safe because I'm on the ground and therefore not being taken for a gallop down the driveway, but she doesn't get out of work for being naughty. I also try to catch her every now and then, walk her away from her field (and companions) then just give her a quick rub down and a treat and turn her back with her buddies. Makes her much easier to catch and to work with.

Are you sure your boy's saddle fits? If his back is hurting, he'll be a real problem under saddle. Is his behavior the same in the arena?

[lollielala]

I was thinking that maybe it is his saddle. I know he's coldback, so I believe that's one of the problems. It could also be his teeth. I know horses don't behave badly without a reason, and it's usually because they're in pain. I'm getting a new saddle soon, and it's going to be fitted for him so I'm planning to hold off on riding until then. In the meantime, reading the replies and like Denise said

I spent a long time working on the ground with my mare. And I didn't get back in the saddle until I had her respect, everytime I worked with her on the ground

I think that's basically what I'm going to have to do. Just lunging him, and working with him. Just starting all over. Is this a good idea? I sure think it is. I'm going to keep trying, because I really do believe that beneath all of his bad behavior, there's a good horse. And I'm willing to atleast try and find that good horse, even if it takes six months. Maybe he doesn't believe in himself because I don't believe in him. So it's about time I start.

[BackintheSaddle]

Have you ead "perfect manners" by Kelly Marks? It has lots of good exercises to do on the ground. Do you have access to a round pen? This helps a lot if you want to free school.

I hope things work out for you and your horse - it is a major committment, but I think both you and your horse can gain confidence from the experience. Maybe your Dad can give you a hand?

[lollielala]

No I haven't read it, but it sounds helpful. Do you know where I can find it? I don't have a round pen, but my neighbor who is a friend of my family's has one and has offered me the chance to use it whenever I need to. You're right, it is a big commitment, I just hope it won't all be for nothing.

[foginbrainz]

Your story sounds so familar! I know exactly what you are going through. I had alot of problems with my first horse... some things that I would recommend-- if you know a trainer, of course use them, but I had an apprentice help me, she came out to my house for the same price as going to a trainer, and she was very helpful. Doing ground work like you allready mentioned is good.

Also, since you are having trouble catching him, maybe try not giving him any grain at all unless he is haltered and in control. I did this with one mare and it really helped. Every time she got grained (morning and night) she had to be haltered first. IN the beginning it was a real pain--sometimes I would doggedly follow her around for 30 minutes before she would relent (in a huge pasture!)

....but one thing....if it doesn't work out don't be afraid to let him go. That happened to me...I finally made that choice, that this particular horse just wasn't a good match for me...I was so sad....and you know what, I traded her straight up for a young paint mare..and the horse I got is amazing. I mean, she still tests me, what horse doesn't, she even tried biting once, but once you let her know you wouldn't take that crap...she is great. And it is wonderful...when your horse runs up to you in the feild, and you don't feel that shiver of apprehension (like is she going to go psycho) all you feel is excited....

[cvb]

lollielala

fear is a survival trait - we and the horses we associate with learn to avoid "bad experiences" cos it makes us more likely to survive ! Its when that fear starts to rule us that we have to call a halt and do something about it.

Such a lesson (from a bad experience) can be learnt in an instant, but takes much longer to unlearn. So although you have done all the right things ("never, ever hit or mistreated him, and I would never."), he still has the lessons from before you owned him and they will take time to "unlearn". In the meantime he is teaching you lessons which you will also need to "unlearn" to move forward.

Ground work can be more than just lunging - but lunging will help no end. The Kelly Marks book may be more difficult to find in US than in UK - but you have loads of people in US (Parelli, Lyons and so on) who explain the kind of exercises that might help you. Round pen wise - I like Klaus Ferdinand Hemplfing's book "Dancing With Horses" but again you may have more choice in US than we have here...

I've rode a couple of horses that aren't even mine that I've never rode before, and it didn't bother me, but I can't even ride my own horse without being scared. What's wrong with that picture?

nothing's wrong with that picture - it just says that you and your horse need to learn to have confidence and trust. And right now his behaviour isn't helping that much !

I've been riding 30 something years - and will happily canter my mother's pony bareback, but not my own mare ! Its a simple risk management thing.... we'll get there but it'll take some time.

In sorting out saddle and teeth you are starting to take control of the situation and eliminate possible causes. Good on you !! Like me, you'll get there too :)

[lollielala]

Thank you all so much. I respect everyone here so much and you guys have given me a confidence boost. If it weren't for you, I would have gotten rid of him. I've now learned that sometimes it just takes a little bit of work, and I'm willing to do that. Like foginbrainz said "if it doesn't work out don't be afraid to let him go" I'm willing to atleast try and make it work. Thank you all so much, I appreciate everything you've done to help. Oh and you guys can call me Amanda, I don't even like this screen name but everyone I tried said it was taken, so I finally just thought of something crazy lol.

[aphagirlie05]

In another post on this part of the board, you said you were using a hackamore on your horse and posted a picture of this piece of equipment.

The type of hackamore you are using, with a bicycle chain in the nose piece, and long shanks, is an extremely severe device, which uses pain to demand submission from your horse. Your horse, obviously, is not the submissive type, and is fighting the pressure on his nose by rearing and tossing his head. You also said in the other post, that you resorted to using a tie down to try and prevent him from head tossing, this only exacerbates the problem. The tie down puts more pressure on your horse's nose, and when combined with a mechanical hackamore, causes nothing but problems.

This is not a problem with your horse's teeth. This is a problem with your horse's face.

Despite the fact that you are kind and loving with your horse, when you pull on his face with the hackamore, you cause him pain. This makes riding an unpleasant experience for him, which is why he seems to be protesting so much. I would suggest that you change from a hackamore to a full-cheek snaffle, and lose the tie down.

When you get your horse in the snaffle, I suggest a bit with a copper inlay, longe him for about twenty minutes with his bridle on, to allow him to get used to the new bit in his mouth. Most horse's love copper mouthpieces, and will lick and suck on them when pleased. Allow your horse to relax in this new bit, ask him to walk/jog/and canter for about ten minutes each direction of the ring.

After he seems to have calmed down, and is paying attention to you, allow him to stop and come to you. Rub him and praise him profusely. Then take him back to the barn, and tack him up. As you saddle him, praise him, and tell him what a good boy he is. I would even go so far as to give him treats after every part of the process, so he learns that being saddled is a good thing. Since you had problems with him last time, perhaps you can have your parents come along, so they can stay with you while you ride him. I would ask him to walk, and nothing more for about thirty minutes. Just let him relax, and ride on a loose rein. Let him realize that the bit is gentle, and not harsh. If you need to, have your mom or dad walk beside your horse, and leave his halter on, in case you have trouble. After about fifteen minutes, do some circles, make sure you don't act nervous, or your horse will take advantage of that, and begin to act up again. Don't pull hard on the reins, pull gently, and use your legs to direct your horse to turn.

If your horse should take off, immediately turn his face into a solid object. This will stop him. If he continues to fight, back him up. If he bolts, either turn him in a circle, or back him up. Eventually, he will realize that doing what you ask him to do, is the easiest thing to do.

I would ride him for about a week doing nothing but circles and walking, before I would even ask him to move into the jog, and I would only jog for short distances. After you've regained your confidence at the jog, do some circles, stops, etc still at the jog. I would walk and jog for about two weeks, then after that, if you're feeling confident, ask him to lope a little. Before each ride, I would longe him, to get the high jinks out and to get his attention on me.

I would also make sure he knew the term "whoa" or whatever you use to stop your horse. I personally use "hup".

I wish you good luck with your horse, and hope you have a happy holiday!

:D - Kristen

[lollielala]

I've had him in a full-cheek snaffle for about a month now. I can tell that he's not as bad as he was with the hackamore, although I am going to lose the tie-down. I'd act the way he did if someone stuck the hackamore on my face and yanked and pulled too. It angers me because I know that he's been mistreated and that the hackamore is one of the reasons. He doesn't trust me because of it, and it's not fair to him. That's why I'm really passionate about showing him that I'm not going to hurt or abuse him the way he has been in the past. And yes, I do plan to start lunging him before I ride. Before, I would just saddle him up and start riding, I didn't give him the chance to relax under the saddle before, which is another problem. I realize now that I made many mistakes. But one thing you mentioned is backing him up, which is something he absolutely does NOT do with me on his back. But with a halter and lead rope, he will so I've been working on that to make him more comfortable with backing so that he grasps the concept that it's okay to do it under saddle as well. He's testing me, I know, but now that my frustration has passed from our lovely little event the other day :rolleyes: he'll realize that I love him too much to give up and maybe after a while he'll think "oh gee she really doesnt want to hurt me, she loves me" :D So thanks for the good luck wishes and Merry Christmas to you and everyone on NR!!

[aphagirlie05]

I'm really glad you've gotten your confidence back! I know how hard it is to win a horse's trust, take my baby for instance... (shooo weeeee) He wouldn't even let me catch him, much less pet him for almost a month after I bought him. The reason he probably doesn't back is because of fear of pain from previous bad handling. I'm definitely sure that you'll be able to turn him around and make him an awesome horse! I wish you tons more luck! - Kristen

[cvb]

lollielala

At least you're asking questions :)

Our first horse got all our mistakes as well. But ultimately we turned out as (IMHO) half decent horse people and he was a pretty good pony club and riding club horse and general all rounder AND is still with us at 33.

So just keep an open mind and you'll be fine :D

[qhlover]

Hey, Lollielala,

Go check out my posts in the training section under the "scared horse...anyone help?" I think I posted a total of three. I won't bore you to tears by repeating myself again but read this post and just try it! The longest it has ever taken me to rearrange a horse's brain is three hours and that was extreme. This was a most obnoxious, aggressive and spoiled horse and if he wasn't a mini (ooooh, brave me!), I probably would have been killed, seriously! However, most horses respond in 10 to 30 minutes in the appropriate manner.

If you take the time to read this and use the concepts, I GUARANTEE you will change your horse and you can begin a new relationship, new you and new horse. Selling the horse is not the answer and, personally, I think it NEVER is the answer. Just think if everyone sold their horses when they acted like brats.....we would all be buying and selling horses every two weeks.

You gotta get it into that horses head that you are boss mare, and your word/requests/actions are to be respected and not ignored. It is your RIGHT and responsibility as the owner, rider and trainer (we train our horses every day in everything we do) to lay down this mental foundation and to demand the proper attention and respect you deserve.

The way to do this is explained in my post, as mentioned above. Set aside one hour on one day and give it a go. You will be ECSTATIC and it is easy to do, as well.

By the way, no shame in a good cry. Crying helps you bust through emotional and mental blocks and lets you start anew. When you're frustrated, go ahead and cry. We all do it! It hurts your feelings but the horse doesn't think in this way so you must think in his way in order to mentally connect with him. Once your'e done crying, jump up and set about to making the changes. It's all about determination and perservence, baby!


Good luck! Happy attitude adjusting!

[Jenks]

Lollie-I didn't read the whole thing, so sorry if this is a repeat. I've been reading a whole whole lot about problem horses because I just bought a PMU mare. The first thing I thought was to have him checked by a therapist for soreness-or a good clinician. I would think it would be worth a shot. And teeth, etc. In the books I've read, 8 times out of ten, bad behavior is caused by soreness and the other 2, are miscommunication which requires retraining for both horse and rider. Just my Humble Opinion. I don't want you to put yourself in danger, but give him a real chance.

Maybe consider starting from square one? Read up on training and start with some groundwork? When it comes to problems I've had with my already trained horse (never having trained one myself) I had to hop off and go to groundwork. Even though she was an angel for weeks with the previous owner present, once the previous owner was gone, my horse got her mind back and was doing what she wanted. That horse may well have been perfect with the previous owner because that owner established himself as above him in the heirarchy.



**
I just went and read your last post! Yay! Thank goodness! I am so glad you may have found the problem! All the luck in the world to you and your horsey love!

[horsecrazy101]

hey.i know where your coming from too...i have a three year old fresian stallion i have trained mostly myself and i've been thrown an bucked and bittin,everything under the sun but try no to let that destroy your confidence in riding.Nothing against you considering i have no clue ow you ride but maybe you need to move to a horse that mor experinced and bombproof.Something you can regaine confidence on because that truley show you the kind of rider you are,not by what kind of horse you ride.If you really wanna keep this horse adn make yourself more confident you might wanna start trying join-up sessions before you ride.It basicly gives the horse the choice of choosing you as the leader and eventually he or she will learn to give you the respect you need and feel more confident in trusting you.As for your problem of the horse darting off back to the barn...i'll tell you what i did.As much as this sounds crazy and as much as i didnt want to do it it worked.Everythime your horse starts darting back to the barn let him run but as soon as he gets there turn him right back around and start all over again.eventually your horse is gonna catch on that your not gonna let him rest until he stops running.When he starts tossing his head take your one rein and pull it back to the horn and hold it there and when he starts bringing his head around towards you let go but remember not to let the pressure off until he releases his head.Thats all i can think about for the time being..if you need to email me at barrel_racin_chick_3@hotmail.com and i can explain so more training methods to you if you like the ones i gave you...they worked for me

[horsecrazychick]

omg, I know exactly how you feel. I'd really like to sell both of my horses and start over w/ a new horse, but I love my horses so much that I can't. I don't know what to do either. My arab/appy seems like she'll never be good at anything and she's incredibly stubborn, and my TB has great potential but she's incredibly hot and recently I haven't been able to handle her. I want to compete so bad, and I'm SO sick of hearing my name called in 10th place. :( Sorry this post won't help you in any way, but I've been needing to tell someone for a while. It seems like my horse have gotten a lot worse since when I got them, and I'm really afraid that I'm ruining them. I'd really like a horse that actually WANTS to be ridden, LIKES me, and WANTS to be good. I have one that bites and bucks, and another that jumps out of her pants whenever a leaf rustles. (and it FREAKS me out when she rears staright up outta the blue). I mean, it seems like I'm the only one w/ horses that have never really worked out or won anything. Then again, I don't know if a good horse for my family's price budget exists, and my mom won't let me look around at other horses unless I've sold one of mine, but what if I do then realize I was better of w/ what I had? Both of my horses would have been gone LONG ago if I didn't love them so much, so I don't know what to do. Some days, like yesterday, I come up from the barn in tears and just sit in my room and cry, cuz it seems like everything is going so wrong. Or am I just blowing everything way outta porportion? sorry for the extremly long post....(like always :rolleyes: )

[horsecrazy101]

hey horsecrazychick,
I think i can help you with your horse that spooks at everything.I follow a lot of John Lyons work with my horses and i know most of his work is done on the ground but i can guarrente it will help...email me at barrel_racin_chick_3@hotmail.com and ill try my best to help you then instead of writtin such along post...

[horsecrazychick]

Well we sent her out to a trainer's for 2 months, and she actually got to the point where she was really good, but it's rained so much that she hasn't been excercised for atleast a week or so, and the ground will probably still be wet for atleast a couple days, so I'm kinda dreading getting back on.... (wish I had an indoor arena lol)