Losing nerve...

[Lovecat]

Not me (I haven't been on him in 8 months!) but my niece.

Apologies in advance for the length of this post....

She's 11, almost 12, has been riding since she was 4 and up until last month I would have said she was a very confident rider - she loves the whizzy ponies and would have a go at anything. She was also working well with Murphy and had got him going really well - she would even laugh when he did his usual buck into canter on the left rein and said it was like a rollercoaster!

However, a couple of things have happened recently and I have a horrible feeling she's beginning to lose her nerve... I'd appreciate your thoughts and advice.

Firstly, we were in the school the week before bonfire night before 6pm so theoretically no fireworks, someone from the estate that backs onto the yard was letting off rockets but they were one every 5/10 minutes and Murph is totally unphased by this kind of thing, he might stop to have a look at the pretty coloured lights but doesn't react to bangs... then, just as we were cooling down and I was walking around to open the gate (thank God I hadn't got there!) it appeared that the local youth got bored with setting off individual fireworks and dropped the match into their entire box... the whole sky lit up, it sounded like a bomb had gone off, and in the time it took for me to shout 'sit ba......' Murph had gone from one end to the other of the 60m school and was standing trembling by the gate. Jannah didn't fall off, but was in absolute hysterics and was demanding that she get off that instant. I managed to get her to stay aboard until I got into the school and could hold him, but that was it - she wouldn't go near him again, so I found myself having to lead a large, scared horse back to the yard at nearly 6 months gone, thank God there were no more fireworks, because I couldn't have held him!

She rode him in the daylight the next day and seemed fine, we decided that until firework season was over we wouldn't ride in the evenings, and that seemed to be that.

Anyway, incident two was about 2 weeks later - I've posted previously about moving riding schools because the quality of her lessons had gone drastically downhill - she'd been for a private assessment at a new place and seemed to have really liked it, so I booked her in for a proper group lesson. Unfortunately I couldn't take her, so her horse-loathing mother did the business and apparently it was a disaster... she had another fit of hysterics in the group because her horse wanted to go faster than the one in front and she couldn't stop it, they switched her onto a different horse but she said she never, ever, wanted to go back there because they were 'horrible' to her - I have not been able to get out of her what form this horribleness took, her mum said that (oh God) "they shouldn't have put her on that horse in the first place and should have changed her immediately she had problems, how dare they put her on a dangerous horse she can't control etc etc etc" so I suspect that said horribleness involved them trying to encourage her to work through the problem... :rolleyes: This is a yard with an excellent reputation and really lovely teaching staff so I seriously doubt they'd have been putting her in danger...

There was then a hiatus while her mother and father had one of their regular custody arguments so she wasn't around for a couple of weekends. She rode Murph a week ago but only for about 20 mins, however, she didn't seem nervous or out of sorts.

And then we moved yards at the weekend. When I first told her I was moving, to begin with she was in a total strop with me, said she was never riding again, how dare I move her from all her friends etc etc etc - but as soon as she realised that there were 2 girls she knew on the new yard, she became a lot happier. She helped me move on Saturday and we agreed that Sunday we'd introduce Murph to the indoor school and take a gentle walk around it, just to get him used to it. She seemed very happy and excited about this.

Sunday morning my friend's husband had already taken him out for a hack for me, he'd been a bit on his toes (wind!) but he'd had a good run and I reckoned a nice gentle walk, maybe a bit of trot if he seemed settled, would do us nicely.

First problem - no mounting block at the new yard! We found a plastic jump thing that people use to get up and she had a wobbly over that, saying she couldn't do it, I jollied her along through that and she got on board, then I walked with her to the indoor school. Murph regarded the doorway to the school with deep suspicion and backed away from it. I asked her to encourage him forward while taking the bridle and leading him in. He went in well enough but gave a little leap as he went over the threshold and in doing so she banged her knee against the wall.

Immediately she went into hysterics. 'I wanna get off, I wanna get off' . I asked her if her knee was hurting, she said no, she just wanted to get off, he was going to bolt on her, he hated it in there, she could feel it - all the while tensing up like nobody's business - I said, very calmly & reassuringly, that if her knee wasn't hurting then we would just walk around once inside the school and then she could get off, I didn't want Murph getting the idea that the school was a scary place and she was giving him that impression by being so tense - I have no idea if this was the right thing to do! - so we walked around with me holding his reins, having to talk her down the whole time, literally having to get her to breathe for me, being as soothing as I possibly could, but she was still in an absolute state, sobbing 'he hates it in here, he's going to run away with me' - Murph in the meantime was plodding around the school like he'd been there and done that a million times... We made a circuit of the school and she got off, again wouldn't go near him, I led him out and he did the little leap again, which set her off again, but as soon as we got him back to his stable she suddenly seemed fine again and was talking about hacking him out in the forest (I don't think so....!).

So I was wondering what to do for the best. If she's so scared, I don't want to force her into riding, but she says she loves riding and loves Murphy and still wants to ride him for me... I don't know whether to go down the 'pull yourself together!' type route and risk her completely losing her nerve or conversely not pushing her out of her comfort zone (which seems to have shrunk drastically) and running the risk of her getting more scared and ending up not riding again...

Has anyone been through this with a child (or themselves?!) and did they get over it? I know I had a wobbly period when I got back onto Murph after I had my fall, but I forced myself over it because I knew I loved riding so much that I refused to let my nerves get the better of me... Jannah's only 11, though, and I just don't know what to do for the best!

Help.......:(

[cvb]

hhmmm - is it a complete coincidence that you said there was a custody argument going on around this time ? Could she be feeling a little unable to control her life and while she can't do anything about her parents she CAN try and control her riding ?

So is there some transference going on (for "he's worried" read "I'm worried")

I have been a "wobbly" child - not cos of anything other than a pony with no brakes that I loved to bits. My mother said "ride her or we sell her" and I had to face my fear :eek: - did so and am still here :D (Sounds tough - but I did have lessons etc and a big sis to help me along).

Can you focus more on things like care, management and groundwork for a while ? Would be good for her to know how and also might be sensible given your own situation. If she offers to ride, don't say "no" but its her choice.

Learning to e.g. lunge a horse might help her feel more in control.

[Lovecat]

cvb, I think you definitely have something there - unfortunately it's not so much a custody as a non-custody thing - without going into too much detail, her dad won't have her round at his anymore since she 'disrespected' his new wife, while her two brothers get to go off there every other weekend - this ridiculous situation has been going on for almost 3 months now and is set to continue over Christmas... in the meantime her mum is fairly vocal about how inconsiderate to *her* this is as she can't have her child-free weekends anymore - which is why I generally end up taking Jan down the stableyard both days of the weekend.

She already does loads for me with Murph and has been brilliant during my pregnancy - she mucks out, grooms, feeds & waters, does his feet, likes to lead him to and from turnout etc etc - so I think you might be right, perhaps we need to sit back a bit and maybe just do groundwork for a while. He's not the best lunge-er in the world so I'm not sure that would help matters confidence-wise, but I have a whole library of books on groundwork exercises so we can certainly give that a go.

Trouble is, he's a big horse and I think she gets a bit nervous around him, although he's never done anything to warrant this nervousness - he doesn't bite, buck, kick, barge etc - and she keeps telling me how much she loves him and is always really affectionate to him.... ah well, we can give it a try!

[Sophini]

Hiya Lovecat,

hope you and the bump are ok :D....could you not just let Jan "mess around" with Murphy for a bit? I think most kids go through a stage of not wanting to ride partly because they can get some attention by causing a bit of a scene. She wanted to go for a hack around the forest so the confidence is obviously there, just a bit hidden.

If she still came up to the stables and just brushed him off i know it doesn't give Murph any exercise but you saying "i didn't think you really wanted to ride anymore so i thought you could just brush him" but make her realise actually riding is the one thing she loves and she doesn't want to lose it all.

In my spoilt brat phase i was constantly throwing tantrums when my riding let me down and my parents trick of saying "well the pony is obviously not suitable we'll sell it and you can go without" put me into a pretty quick reverse!!

Good luck (rather you than me, i shall continue to avoid children!)

JJ :D

[cvb]

do you think she would handle a direct conversation about it ? e.g. to talk about what she is worried about and what you can do to improve it ? Or would that simply blow her mind at this stage ?

Having the open conversation would at least mean that when she was riding you could get her to rate her "worry-level" and start to work on it.

e.g. "aunty LC, I'm a '6' now", "ok - what would help it be a 5 (0r 4) ?" "well if I could......"

...stop for a moment and get my breath
... think about something else
...stay down this end of the school

or you could have an agreement that if her worry-level goes over 5 you will just stand still for a minute and then carry on.

by the way - can you get her to sing songs or tell Murphy stories ? This will distract her and calm them both down AND help her keep breathing ;)

[galadriel]

I had a very talented 11 year old student who spent quite a lot of one summer with me--she'd come out to the barn, hang out, help out, and get a lot of riding time.

For several weeks in there she was a completely different child; didn't want to do anything. I spoke to her mother, and she was acting the same way at home. After a little while it, cleared up on its own. Her mother told me that 11 seemed about the typical age for young girls to start getting unpredictable, possibly a bit hormonal (the student was the youngest of 3).

It might be a phase. Give it some time?

I find that close relatives may not respond well to instruction from me. You might do well to get in a freelance instructor who can work with her on Murphy. You'd have to find someone who can inspire trust, someone who can be compassionate but still get her to focus and ride. That might be tough. Good luck...

[Stella2]

I agree with the main thrust of what cvb and Gal have said. A child with divorced parents where there is any animosity is bound to experience a sense of vulnerability and life being 'out of control' and of course being around horses can be unpredicatable, so mirroring the other issues. In addition, she will be approaching or entering puberty so her hormones will be in flux. There will of course be all kinds of other niggling worries associated with that (fitting in with her peers group, emerging sexuality etc). Lets face it, 11 can be a tough age and we all know that confidence around horses can be fragile and our riding can be effected (for good or ill) by other issues in her life.

I wouldn't go down the 'pull yourself together' route, but I would talk to her about the issues and work a strategy out between you. Kids of that age are often quite analytical given the chance.

Good luck with it, it sounds like you are approaching it with lots of patience and kindness :)

[nutkin]

I agree with all that has been said above, however given the circumstances you are describing I would think that she is not feeling all that good about herself at the moment and the fact that Murph took off across the school with her has probably transpired that thought of 'i'm no good'. Having been in a situation where I have had lots going on in my personal life it does transpire through to your riding and before you know it you are stuck in a vicious circle. The way for her to get out of this circle is to firstly notice that there is a problem and secondly to fix what has caused her to feel this way in the first place. I think that maybe she needs someone to talk to her and let her know that her feelings are important and that you can understand why she reacted to her dad's wife the way she did but the only way to mend the situation is to accept that what she did was wrong and apologise to her dad if she wants things to get better between them. However if I was her mum I would have been inclined to stop her brothers going to her dads for the time being as it is just not fair on Jannah and is probably making matters worse. I think when things improve at home the riding will sort itself out. To work on her confidence you need to push gently and not let her feel threatened so if that means not riding in the school for the moment then accept that and work on other things like free schooling in the school so she can see that Murph isn't likely to react that way again.

[horseygal90]

Maybe the day after the fireworks went off, she was just being brave? Or something like that, what I mean is maybe she bottled up her scared-ness earlier, and its all coming out now? Thats what I did, about jumping. I got an absolute mare of a horse at one stable, had to jump her - had a terrible time, but acted brave and took it all to my next stable, where I refused to jump.

The others have brilliant suggestions, I like the one about telling Murphy stories! And the singing ones good. Though, I think you should just give her the choice of either doing stable management and just grooming him, or riding him.

Hope she gets through it still liking riding and horses!

[JaniceH]

The only thing I can relate to is how I feel around horses at the moment (Shandy84 can testify this!). While Ben was here I did with him things that I never thought I could manage and he managed to chuck everything bad at me that could happen - and he really frightened me - I mean REALLY frightened me. But with me its not driving - I could drive anywhere and cope with any spooks etc, its on the ground I have my wobbles. So what I have done is go back a few steps. I really analysed what it was that I was worried about and made a list of what really frightened me and then put them in order of most scary down to still scary but not as much. I then wrote a list of what didnt bother me about being around horses and what I enjoyed doing, so all I am doing at the moment is doing what I dont worry about and what I enjoy. I know that eventually my confidence will increase and then what I will do with my scary list is work out what I would do in each situation, so for example, if I dont like picking out feet because of the fear of being kicked then I can wear steel toes caps, my hat (if I want to) learn how to stand in such a way to protect myself. Then I will feel more in control of the scary situation, and then I can take the easiest of the scary things and see how I feel. but in the mean time I am still around horses, still doing things I enjoy and steadily working on my confidence.

I would sit your niece down (my sons 11 in January and quite capable of doing this) and get her to right the list of what she doesnt mind doing without any collywobbles at all. Even things down to feeding Murphy polos or something. It might help if you write it for her as sometimes it's quicker for them to think than write. Then when she has her 'no problem' list then get her to think about her most scary thing list and then order the scary things from most scary to still scary but least scary. Both have a copy of the list, as its more official if Aunty has one, it makes it more of a grown up thing to do. Then make a deal with her, tell her that the pressure to ride is completely OFF. And she is only going to do things that are on her 'no problem' list and the only person that will decide when to tackle her scary list will be her. That way she is in control of the situation completely. If everything is not under her control at home and she is feeling under pressure to ride (11yr olds tend to want to please their Aunties, especially when she gets real individual quality time with you) then she could feel really mixed up.

Sorry this post is so long, but I know that confidence is built up slowly, but lost in a second. This is also the technique used to build up peoples confidence in doing things they are worried/scared about doing after they have had a stroke - it does work I promise :)

[eventerbabe]

To be honest, it sounds like a phase. i don't have kids(too young!!!), but i remember at a yard we were at, a girl about the same age as your neice took to having hissy fits and throwing herself off the pony at the first oppertunity. It was a cry for attention coz her parents were going through a bad patch.

Or it simply may be that she no longer wants to ride, my sister lost interest at 12/13 years old. she's quite happy to help groom/turnout and stuff like that but will never, ever sit on a horse. not all little girls remain pony mad when they get older.

[pengapenga]

Lovecat, I think it is a combination of things and your niece is finding it hard to cope with things. It is a very good idea to have a conversation with her, perhaps at a more grown-up level, she will be at the age of thinking she is grown up but she really is still a child, she will appreciate that you are talking to her at an 'adult' level. The fact that she threw a wobbly at you about moving yards and all her friends are there would suggest she is a very insecure young lady at the moment. Indeed groundwork would be great and as someone else suggested set up a level of confidence so when she says she is at that level you can help her work through the problem. I have a tewelve year old son, a talented rider, and he took a couple of bad falls and wanted to give up, he did not and is now eager to ride my stallion! but he is going through that puberty stage and to say the least he is difficult!! My 10 year old daughter's confidence is a little shaky at the moment especially around Frits I am working with her to overcome this by use groundwork. Good Luck with your niece. My husbands teenage niece tells me all sorts of things and I try and not break her confidence (if I think it is something her mum should know about I tell my hubby who has a quiet word with his sister) this way she has an adult figure to talk to without worrying about trust being broken. So far we have had a lot of success with this relationship.

[Lovecat]

Thanks to all for taking the time to reply - loads of good and sensible advice there!

She's going through a really hard time at the moment and the last thing I want to do is add to her worries. I think a good long talk about things and then some kind of cooling off period where she only does what she feels comfortable with doing is probably the best way forward...

Thanks again.:)

[galadriel]

I haven't seen anyone mention this specifically (though I might just be skimming too fast). Overall it sounds like she's completely lost confidence in herself. My thought is--

LC, with your further explanation of the situation she's in, no wonder she's got no faith in herself! Her father won't have her around, and her mother doesn't want her on those weekends either? I mean, really now! The poor dear child. That would be enough to shake anyone down to the bone.

Among other things, I think it would help if you can give her a clear indication that YOU want her around. If you can convince her that Murphy wants her around, too, that might go a long way toward helping her find her own faith again--how expressive is Murphy that way?

Overall, though, this poor kid needs to talk to a counselor who can convince her that none of what's going on with her parents is her fault--that even though her parents are being spiteful, SHE is still a worthwhile person who deserves love and self-confidence.

Poor, poor kid.

[MI Horsey]

the poor girl.i completly agree with all galadriel said.keep telling her you want her around and that she can come to you with anything.it's tough on a kid when the parents act like that.takes self asteem and confidence away for sure.your a great aunt for taking her away from that on the weekends by the way .can't really give any advice here ,just want to say that i hope it all works out !!!!

[Peace]

Echo galadriel - poor kid must feel like the odd-person-out right now.:( I'm glad she has you and Murphy.

When I was going through my spell of bad nerves - which I think looking back had more to do with life stress like school and work than with riding - the most important thing for me was feeling in control. If I suspected I was going to be pushed out of my comfort zone I'd simply avoid the experience all together. I'd definitely vote for letting her take things at her own pace - but tell her that's what you're doing. Don't let her think you agree that she has anything to be scared of, you're just letting her come to this realization on her own terms.

[shaka]

You've had some really great replies.

Galadriels suggestion of a counsellor could really be the thing to fix it. When I was about 12 I had a major confidence crisis regarding riding which I now know was bought on by something totally unrelated. At the riding school I was at the pony I usually rode, so knew well, bolted with me across the field. It was really terrifying as this was a pony I trusted to look after me. After that I would get very very anxious about cantering, thinking of it would make me physically ill, bring on headaches, nausea and sometimes bring on panic attacks or make me hysterical. I'd do it because I was also scared not to do it, but I hated it. Whilst this was going on, I was having some major problems in my personal life. Around this time I started to develop Generalized Anxiety but got no support from my parents who told me I was making it up and all my friends but one disowned me after they witnessed my first panic attack at school. It got worse and worse until I suddenly realised I didn't want to get on Maple anymore and jsut him shying slightly at a puddle would be enough to send me hysterical. I adored him and spent a lot of time chatting away to him in his stable but when it came to getting on him I'd fall apart.

Knowing that this couldn't carry on I went to see my school counsellor who made me realise I wasn't scared of riding at all, things were just getting out of control in other ways (though nowhere near as extreme as what your cousin is going through) and this was being reflected in my one and only comfort zone and the only thing I felt I could control. It only took a few visits before I was able to get on as normal with Maple and handle everything else a lot better on the other side.

A counselor can sometimes be a childs saviour. The situation at home for Jannah is obviously making her feel very insecure and lacking in control. If she can find someone she can really put her trust into and sit and talk with them for however long can be very benefficial and really help. She doesn't need someone to tell her none of this is her fault, she needs to find someone who can encourage her to think about it and figure it out. It sounds like she just needs a lot of time, patience and a heap of gentle encouragement to get back into her comfort zone.

Good luck!

Sorry, this wasn't mean to be an essay:o

[Mehitabel]

poor kid! nothing to add to the already-useful advice given, but just wanted to say - poor kid! bloody well done to you for thinking of her when her parents aren't. :mad:

[laura jeanne]

Everyone else has given great advice and I'd like to make a suggestion too.

Could you do something non-horsey with her one day? Like go to the movies or shopping or out for a grown-up lunch outing or anything else just so she could be with her auntie with no pressure about whether or not she is riding?

She is lucky to have you!

[~Perdita.M~]

Lovecat, just wanted to say, you are going to make an absolutely wonderful mum:)

[SmokeKandeeBar]

You did do the right thing by making her walk around the ring after he spooked and banged her leg (which sounds to me like a complete accident on his part) It sounds like he is just spooking because he is in a new enviroment other than what he is used too. It doesn't sound like he is doing it intentionally. My horse is the quietest horse. She never spooks at anything. When we moved her to a different stable for training she adjusted fine. But the first time I took her outside to turn her out, she spooked at a girl in a pink coat really bad and completely plowed into me and stomped on my foot. She just spooked because she was in a new place that she wasn't familiar with so she was a really uneasy, and he adrenaline was pumping. It was an accident though. However if she rushes off of Murphy everytime he spooks he is going to start to think, hey! if I spook I'm not going to have to work, this is great! They are creatures of habit and they pick up on things quick! I'm 18 and I have had horses since I was 10. When I got my first horse when I was 10, she was a nightmare. She was so nasty. She would buck everytime I went to canter. She discouraged me so much, that when I started taking lessons this april I was STILL terrified to canter! I thought oh my gosh cantering means my horse is gonna buck. When I was 11 I would dread having lessons on my horse. She scared me so much that I stopped riding her altogether. My mom rides her to this day, I won't get on her, even though she has changed so much since we got her. I think Jannah just needs to realize that Murphy isn't doing anything to hurt her intentionally, he doesn't do it to be nasty either. From what it sounds like he just needs to get used to his new enviroment, maybe instead of riding him in a new place such as the new ring, she should walk him, and pet him, and say reassuring things to him so he knows that it is okay, that no boogeymen are going to get him. Same thing if she wants to go on a new trail. Sure, the first time he goes he is going to be a little flighty probably, because it is a whole new surrounding than what he is used to. She could start off going a little bit one day, then a little farther down the trail the next day, so he gets used to it. But the more he goes on trails and the more he sees them he will become more comfortable. If you have a trailer maybe you could trailer him places so he gets used to being in places that he is not familiar with. He sounds like a good boy! She just needs to realize this! :) I was a whole lot more nervous about riding when I was younger, I was so scared to fall, and so scared to get kicked, now I don't care!;) I just think it is the age, just be patient with her, she will probably grow out of it, I did. I hope I helped!

[Secret Smiley]

Originally posted by Sophini


? I think most kids go through a stage of not wanting to ride partly because they can get some attention by causing a bit of a scene.
JJ :D

I totally hear you here! That pre-teen 11-12ish attention seeking phase is common around my area! I'm sure even i went through!