My leg postion - I need help pleeeease

[aliw]

I had a dressage lesson the other day, and the instructor said I needed to keep my leg underneath me, because it is too far forward. The problem is, I find this really difficult because I just can't keep it there.
Any tips?

[Mehitabel]

what you need to think about is getting your leg to a position where, if the horse was magicked out from under you, you'd land on the floor standing up.

there are two main exercises i use to teach this, the first is that when you're sitting on the horse, reach down behind your thigh and take hold of the inside of your leg, and pull the muscle there up and back, so you turn the front of your thigh inwards, thinking of pointing your knee to the ground (don't actually point your knee straight down, just think of it).
thighs aren't round, they're more 0-shaped, and what you want is the 'long' side, the inside, as much on the saddle as possible - normally if your lower legs are too far forward it stems from you having the back of your thigh on the saddle and knees sticking out.

you will need to do this a lot at first as you get used to the feel of it, your hips might ache as well so don;t force it to begin with, let the hips open gradually. as you get used to it your leg will stay there for logner and eventually will go there as soon as you get on.

the second thing is to stand in your stirrups, at stand, then walk and trot. start off at stand, and stand up as if you're rising in trot, then stay there and find your balance, you'll need your legs under you to do this. when you have your balance at trot, try it walking along, but be sure to be on a loose rein and hang onto the mane so that if you lose your balance you don't jab the horse in the teeth or thump down on the saddle, grab the mane to rebalance yourself.

practise that at walk and trot, and aim to keep your leg in that position underneath you when you're not practising as well.

[Tangle]

Lots and lots and lots of time with no stirrups ;)

If you're used to riding shorter and with your legs more forwards you'll need to give your muscles time to stretch and also re-programme where your legs are meant to be. Both of those will take time, so don't try to go too far too soon. Any stretches you can do off the horse will also help.

You might also want to look at your saddle - a lot of GP and jumping saddles have the stirrup bar set further forward than a dressage saddle would, which will make it harder to keep your leg under you (actually, some dressage saddles have this problem, too). The blocks are also badly positioned for dressage.

Good luck :)

[aliw]

Thank you for that, and I have also read a couple of Galadriel's articles.
Do you have any idea of of how long it will take?
Also, I find trotting without stirrups hard, so any help here would be appreciated.

[galadriel]

It can take you as long to undo a habit/learn a new one, as it took to develop the old one in the first place.

Ugh, right?

It can help to set up a way to check yourself regularly. For example, if you're in an arena, any time you go by the gate, do a status check. Make sure you're sitting straight, shoulders back, looking up, heels down & underneath your body.

To check if your feet are far enough back, you can look at your knee; if your toes are visible, the foot's too far forward. Alternatively, you can stand in the stirrups. If your feet slide back, they were too far forward. Try to keep them in the same position when you sit. And check yourself regularly! Otherwise you'll just slip back into previous habits.

You should be able to post as easily without stirrups as with; sitting trot should be just as easy without stirrups as with ;) If you're having problems with sitting trot no stirrups, Heather's "Kinder Way" article might be useful:
http://www.newrider.com/Kinder_Way/The_Paces/sitting_trot.html

You said you've read some of my articles; you might want to glance at the posting trot article if you haven't already, and you're having trouble riding trot/no stirrups.

Good luck. Undoing a bad habit is one of the worst pains in riding. It just takes determination and some way to regularly remind yourself to THINK about what you're doing, instead of just doing. In the long run your riding will be much better and more secure :)

[aliw]

Galadriel - Heather's article was brilliant!
All the advice you three have given me has been fab.
Thank you so much. ;)

[Lenvale]

Message deleted

[Tina&Dale]

I think it’s important to note that it is unlikely (I’d say impossible but absolutes usually spur arguments) that you (or any rider no matter their experience) will hold the correct position for the whole lesson without breaking once! It is a pretty unreasonable request upon you really! Just as you make corrections to the horse, you will need to make corrections to your own position right throughout your work.

Classical Dressage master Erik Herbermann emphasis’s that although you may strive for perfection, there will be few moments in your whole riding life that you ever actually achieve this. That’s not to say perfection shouldn’t be the goal for every rider, indeed it should be without exception. However it is important to accept this, as it is from the mistakes that we make improvements and we need to be open to this reality in order to recognize our weaknesses.

I think this is an important lesson for every rider to learn, as I myself used to get greatly upset that I couldn’t stay perfectly positioned for a whole 45 minutes lesson! It wasn’t until I read some of Erik Herbermann’s works that I realized this really was a very inhibiting and unrealistic view of riding! So the point to my story is, don’t feel upset if you can’t keep your legs in the perfect position all the time!

[aliw]

Update: today I worked in the school, and kept my leg position for most of the time. It is only when I get to rising trot that my leg goes forward again. Also, sometimes when i've got my leg underneath me and I'm rising, I the top half of my body tips forward - any ideas why this is?

[Tangle]

Sounds like you're doing well :).

wrt your last post, sounds like you're not quite in balance through the rise for some reason. Have you tried Es's second exercise? As a variant, you can shorten your stirrups (I get told up 5 from dressage length) and then try and walk/trot whilst standing up as straight as you possibly can, hips forward. In trot you'll find that in order to stay balanced you'll need to allow your ankles to work as shock absorbers. That flexing should stay when you're in normal rising trot - your heels should flex down slightly as you rise.

Another thought - can you do rising trot in slow motion in halt? Literally take 30 seconds over the action It'll teach you where your balance is at every point and may show where you're struggling. If you're trying to stay too vertical when you rise you may be getting a little behind the horse, which will tend to push your legs too far forward.

Last one- have you had a chance to look at your saddle? If the stirrup bars are too far forward it will make rising trot much more difficult, dressage style.

[galadriel]

Originally posted by aliw
It is only when I get to rising trot that my leg goes forward again. Also, sometimes when i've got my leg underneath me and I'm rising, I the top half of my body tips forward - any ideas why this is?

Sounds like you're gripping with your knee, and rising from the stirrup. Both of these will bring your lower leg forward. When your lower leg goes forward, your upper body often follows it; you're unconsciously attempting to stay over your heels (as you should), but the heels are too far forward. Feet and upper body forward is a very insecure position, as compared to the classic head-hip-heel.

You should be softly clinging with your calf, NOT gripping with the knee, and the rise shouldn't come from the stirrup at all. Try rising trot without stirrups, and see how different it feels.

[aliw]

OK, then. Later i will make a few more holes in my stirrup leathers and put them up a hole.
Also, tomorrow I've got a riding lesson tomorrow so I will ask what my instructor thinks.

[Em 1]

I developed this problem about 9 months ago - I used to have my legs too far back, you can't win! Definitely try standing trot. It made a world of difference to me and I still do it sometimes if my hips are tight.

One other thing I found useful was when my instructor said 'Rise over your knees'. As you go forward to rise think about whether your body is moving over your knee or forwards towards it. This may make no sense at all (a bit like the 'sit deeper' classic) but it made the penny drop with me immediately - maybe I'm just strange though;)

Enjoy your lesson anyway!

[aliw]

I put my stirrups up a hole today - helped me a little.
But I won't have a chance to practice for the moment because i'm not riding Bella as she is lame. Will have to see what the physio says before I know how long I've got til I can ride her again. :(

[SmokeKandeeBar]

i think it comes with time, i used to have the same problem but then one day it just happened, now sometimes i put it too far back, but most of the time its right where it is supposed to be, i don't know what i did, i think it just comes with time. sorry i know i wasn't much help:)

[horsecrazychick]

I have the same problem, though only at the sitting trot with stirrups. When bareback or w/o stirrups I can keep my leg in the correct position, but I can't seem to do it w/ stirrups at the sitting trot, unless I just focus on my leg, in which case my heel slides up a little and I lose my stirrups. I believe I'm putting my legs forward in order to keep my heels down and my stirrups on. I wonder if my stirrups are too short, since I can do it bareback.. hm.