Lice.........itch,itch!!!!

[Monty]

My lot seem to get lice at about this time of year. We treat them and they go..until the next year. I'm well aware this year that my stable hygiene hasn't been as scrupulous as in previous years, for reasons beyond my control....but it hasn't been THAT bad.

Anni has been treated as have the others,and has got better, except I'm sure she still has them in her ears. I can't see them...and she's reasonably good about her ears, if you attack whilst she's eating.She'll let you do anything if there's food involved!!:D

But she does tend to kick her ears. Dentist has given her the once over as best he could, all seems well there. No lumps,bumps or dents around her face, and she doesn't seem to suffering in ANY other way....except for a dose of paranoia where grooming brushes are concerned!!

Anyone else got any expereinces with this?? Any advice for me,please?? I actually think it's IN her ears, rather that on the outsides.

[eventerbabe]

there was a horse at our old yard who kept getting lice for no apparent reason, don't beat yourself up about your yard hygiene. when i first got a pony (13years ago) the YO said it was important to brush louse powder into their coats every 2 months or so. i know recently a lot of these powders have been banned but there are some still available, that might help? good luck :)

[Mehitabel]

ear mites rather than lice? we had one who got them so badly that she rubbed the insides of her ears to shreds, we had to have her sedates so we could, together with the vet, clean them up and treat for the mites.

[cvb]

my old guy's mega-itchy right now - so vet has provided shampoo to wash him with. But it doesn't seem to have helped at all.

He's itching his neck and around the ears. This time last year he itched around his ears a bit but nothing like this. The itchy area gets really hot to touch.

I feel dreadful cos I don't seem to be able to sort it for him :(

I know that even if the shampoo has worked, the skin irritation - possible allergic reaction etc - may take some time to calm down.

I've now clipped his neck out as well, even though we made sure the shampoo went through all the fur. If only so we can see and treat the bits he itches more easily ...

His second shampoo is due this weekend. If it doesn't sort it, I;m getting the vet out.

We've tried to see if we can spot any beasties - using hand lenses etc - but nothing to be seen :(

Our other two are not itching....

Interestingly the two boys - who have been doing grizzly bear impressions - are both starting to shed coat like its March. Much earlier than normal - I'm assuming its down to the mild weather (warm) we've had. ("Mild" is not the term I'd use to describe the wind speeds we've had :eek: )

[Jessey]

My old chap has lice, we couldnt figure out what was wrong with him and it was only when I started cutting thee fur away round a sore that we found them, he has cushings so major ammounts of coat and almost impossible to see them in it, so on new years eve OH and I spent nearly 5 hours getting all that hair off so that we could get the little suckers, the problem is that he is petrified of clippers so we had to hack the coat off with scissors - he looks terrible but feels alot better. We have used lice powder on him which seemed to kill lots of lice to start with but we cant get rid of them round his neck and ears, starting to think I may have to hog him - so any ideas appriciated here too!!!
(i have also got a rinse for lice but think its to cold to bath him???)
J

[cvb]

Jessey - I had the same concerns about shampoo at this time of year, so we did it as he was coming in (away from wind and rain, rugged etc) and with warm water.

They often come in with wet necks from the rain so I figured this would not be too different. But of course there is a risk that in not shampooing all of him, we miss the blighters :mad:

However, my text books do say that the "sucking" lice tend to be mane, tail, ears. So I'll probably do his tail as well this time, and see how that goes.

My guy does not seem to have cushings - he's losing his coat like its going out of fashion ! But he does have a good thick coat and it was just difficult to spot the start of a rub and get it early. He hasn't been clipped for 5 or 6 years but stood like an angel, and even let me clip bits of his head (up to ears) which I've never done before :eek: I was really pleased with him - but not so pleased when he's then carried on itching on anything available :(

My sister has some "wipe on" treatment for lice - this might be an option if you really don't want to wash ?

[Sophini]

Es beat me to it, but i thought ear mites to....

Monty if you're on a farm and you always get lice at this time of year, do you have lots of Badgers that are coming closer to the stables or barns looking for food/shelter? We used to have big lice problems with ours when badgers were going into the field shelters and passing the lice on......

[Jessey]

The rinse I have says that you should give them a good bath first then pour on and leave, it seems to have warmed up today though so if it stays like this tomorrow I may take the plunge and maybe see if I can borrow a heat lamp to put in his stable afterwards, my concern is that even with the hair cut he got if he gets wet in the field it takes about 2 dry days before he drys out properly. Just wish I could get the clippers on him, would make things easier all round.

[cvb]

is there nothing you can do about the clipper thing ? My chap was terrified when I got him (at 8) and we taped the clippers and played it while we were grooming, and then gradually worked up to clipping him, and he learnt it was ok.

My mare had never been clipped so I did a similar intro with her - but this time using "parelli" type approach e.g. playing friendly game with clippers turned off, until she was happy. Then turn on clippers away from her. Then gradually introduce clippers. I did an "easy" clip first time around so it was short and no fiddly bits.

She did try to tell me that clippers on but away from her was fine, and clippers on her but off was fine, but clipper on and on her was not. But this was a little jump as they went on and if I perservered she was fine with it. Once she realised I was training HER not the other way around :rolleyes: we were fine.

This was last winter. This winter she got a chaser-style clip and was fine. :D

[Jessey]

I have done it with other horses but this chap is 30+ and was a rescue case as he was badly beaten and mistreated before we got him. I did try last week and the sound of the clippers sets him panicking and if you approach him he has a full blown panic attack which has happened in the past and he ends up almost throwing himself to the floor and having what looks like a fit, he did it a couple of months ago because we had a new vet and all the vet tried to do was hold his head collar!
J

[cvb]

poor chap - probably had enough trauma then....

My guy used to rush round the stable. (He had been mistreated before). Then it went to twice round the stable, then he would stand.

Still had to make his point tho' :rolleyes:
He's 32 now - I was determined he would have a life of horse-luxury after his rough start, and he's got it. Which is why the lice/itching thing is bugging me so much :( I feel like I'm letting him down.

[Jessey]

I did think about having him sedated so that i could do it and get these pesky lice under control but do know if its really worth it?

j

[lisae]

How about an invermectic worming, I have heard that it systemically gets any other critters too. Or, the 'spot on' insecticide might do the ear mites in, you rub it in under their forelock and at several other places such as the croup and back of legs.

[Jessey]

I heard that about ivermectin as well, so I am heading out tomorrow to get them all a dose, I haven't seen any sopt in insectersides for horses, I know they use it for cattle and stuff, do you know of any brand names? I also have a farmer friend so will ask him too.

thanks

J

[cvb]

I don't believe invermectin will help with lice. Invermectin is systemic and lice are running about on the skin. I'm not sure "sucking lice" suck enough to take up the invermectin.

[Jessey]

My guys are about due for worming so i figure it cant hurt. When our puppy had fleas the vet got rid of them then told us that the best bet was to use a stronger wormer which in turn would help control the fleas - similar principal???????????????

J

[cvb]

aha - but fleas definitely bite. I think wormers get rid of stuff that e.g. gets under the skin (like mange - caused by fleas). But does not get close enough to stuff thats just running about on the surface.

Leastwise - my dad's pretty good on stuff like this and reckoned it wouldn't help.

[Monty]

There is an ivermectin topical preparation which we use on the farm for cattle called Spot-On, or Crovect for sheep to treat external parasites. You spray it from withers to top of tail, and it's absorbed through the skin and spreads out over the body like blotting paper. When I asked my vet about it, she said it's not licenced for horses. I asked could I use it...she smiled and repeated herself. Iasked her again, and she smiled again, repeated herself, and then added...."but I do." However, she cautioned me against using on any animal I might want to show, as it can turn the hairs it was sprayed on, white. I use it on Willow and Fat Cob without hesitation, but I'm not chancing it on Anni for that very reason. There'll be no Royal Welsh for me, if THAT happens, will there????
And of course that would perhaps support the case for ear mites, which incidentally, I'd never heard of before!! As I used Spot On on the nother two, and they're not rubbing their ears. Hmmmmm!Might have to get vet to treat then, mightn't I?? Thank you.

[Jessey]

Does the spot-on control internal parasites as well? I wouldn't want to over do it but he is due for worming.

[cvb]

yeah - my dad asked the vet about cattle treatment as well (dad's background is more cows than horses :rolleyes: ) and vet said pretty much the same thing. Its not licensed for equine use so vets can't recommend or comment on possible effects - no one's done the trials. But there is no reason why it shouldn't be fine.

So previous conversation was about ORAL ivermectin.

[lizzy]

What are the symptoms for ear mites, lyce etc?

Adam has been shaking his head for about a couple of weeks and also his skin keeps shuddering, just like a fly is on him. Someone did look in his ears but couldn't see anything.

Coincedently, the back lady came out to see him on Tuesday, and the first thing she said was that he is sore behind the ears, which could be his teeth or the brow band being too tight, which apparently quite common.

The dentist is coming on Monday, so if there is nothing wrong with his teeth, I may have to get the vet to come and see him.

Any thoughts?

[pengapenga]

Originally posted by Monty
There is an ivermectin topical preparation which we use on the farm for cattle called Spot-On,

I used to use this in Zim on my horses. Being a hot country lice was the least of my problems, I had ticks and flies that used to lay egg in the horses ears which when hatched caused immense damage! I couldn't dip the horses in the same way as we did the other animals on the farm, so we tried Spot-on and it worked! I did not notice any reaction to the Spot-on on my horses.

[galadriel]

I just want to add something that's a bit related.

Sometimes when an animal gets a bad bad itch, and really roughs up the skin around it, the animal may continue to itch at it even after the source of the itching (parasite, fungus, etc) has been cleared up.

Our cocker has unfortunately had this problem on the few occasions when we've had a nasty spate of something or other. We've used a soothing shampoo for skin conditions, soothing lotions, spray-on topical steroid, and internal medications (antihistimine, steroid). (Various different combinations from various different vets...after so many hurricanes went through this fall, we've had problems with pesky bugs, and the topical steroid spray was prescribed this morning.)

Anyway, point being, if you absolutely can't find the cause of the itching, maybe it HAS been solved, and horse is just maintaining the irritation to the skin. Fantasy's got that problem with sweet itch and her ears, also; everywhere else has cleared up, but she rubs the inside of her ears against corners of the building! and keeps the skin in there inflamed.

[abi_pring]

One of our Welsh D's has REALLY itchy feet. He stamps them so you itch them for him and turns his bum to you when you walk in the room. We have tried thousands of itch-treatments and had the vet out but he says there is no sign on lice etc and can not find anything wrong. He sometimes has little scabs under his fetlocks, similar to rain scald, mud fever kind of thing - but he has thing all year.
He's.... well.... highly strung to say the least, and I'm starting to wonder if hes a pain because he just gets annoyed with these itches! Sorry for hijacking.. just wondering if anyone has any suggestions!
Thanks in advance!

[galadriel]

Abi_pring, have you ever put anything on them? Calomine lotion, hydrocortisone cream, or various products designed for sweet itch all might help with itchy itchy skin.

I've been using this stuff for my mare with sweet itch:
http://www.saddleuptack.com/webcat/items/item1117.htm

It's mostly cleared up her itching, except for those darn ears! [Might help if she'd let me put stuff on the ears.] Don't know if it's available where you are, but it says it's imported from Iceland, so it's certainly not a native US product :)

[Mehitabel]

abi_pring, have you tried frontline? possibly chorioptes mites, which live on feathery legs and are often hard to spot. worth a go, anyway.

good point whoever (galadriel?) said perhaps the infection/whatever has gone and she just can't leave it alone - like itching at a scar or stitches maybe. can you get some anti-itching cream or anytihng? i've used eurax eczema cream with success on sweet itchy ponies before, when the midges had gone and to clear up the last scabby bits. not sure if you cna use it on broken skin, but there's bound to be something you can soothe it with.

[cvb]

abi_pring - that sounds awfully like harvest mite ... but if thats what it is, I'm surprised your vet hasn't suggested it.

Galadrial - I appreciate the point about the irritation taking some time to calm down. My sister's highland has an allergic reaction to midges and its taking some time to resolve, despite the midges having just about gone.

I just get a bit paranoid that we weren't sure it was lice to start off with, so treatment might not have been "right" and I have no way to know. My chap did think I was absolutely nuts when I was shampooing him on Sunday evening - with howling gales and rain going on (we were in the shelter of the yard). So I have my fingers crossed now that he'll start to get more comfy.

[abi_pring]

We've tried frontline already, made no difference! Tried loads of stuff but nothings helped. Could someone explain the harvest mite to me? Haven't come across it before... I think our only option is to try all the lotions and potions under the sun!

[Jessey]

Abi_pring - a thought, my other chap used to over reach a bit so I tried turning him out with OR boots on, the next day I went to check him and he was really sore and lame - took the boots off and all we could smell was urine, the skin underneath was red and sore and later looked like mud fever scabs. I never turn out with OR boots now, but even then he still manages it sometimes, it seems to happen more often when the ground is dry or he goes on concrete or something solid, I think he gets 'splash back' and the urine burns him, skin gets sore, itchy and hair sometimes comes out. Probably not the answer to your problem but thought I would mention it anyway, just in case.

J

[cvb]

hmm this is feline - but has piccies ! http://www.fabcats.org/harvestmiteinfestation.html

might be wrong time of the year for them.

Is he in straw as it could be straw mite ?


now wondering whether my chap's itchiness could be ear mites (or am I just going round in circles again ?)

[lizzy]

I'm now at a loss to Adam's head shaking and itchy skin.

Vet has been today to sedate a lot of horses for dental, so I asked if he could look at his ears and skin. Nothing in his ears, skin a bit dry, but no lyce. YO suggests I get some oil in him, which I suppose I will try again, although I had stopped it after following a thread on here about oil, the types, advantages and disadvantages.

Dentist saw him and although his teeth were beginning to get a little sharp (not seen him for 9 months) there was nothing to worry about.

Vet says its just the time of year!

[abi_pring]

Originally posted by cvb

Is he in straw as it could be straw mite ?


He is on straw but wouldn't the vet have been able to detect this? The vet only looked though, he didnt do any tests....

[cvb]

yes well - does depend on the vet ! Having called out a vet to look at an eye problem - and he turned up without an opthalmascope (or whatever the scope is called) so couldn't actually diagnose anything :rolleyes:

Did the vet take skin scrapes at all ? Sometimes this is the only way to see the little b's....

[abi_pring]

No he didnt, I think we'll have him out again to do some tests etc. Do you think if it was straw mites it could be why hes so fizzy and unsettled?!

[cvb]

the horse I know that had harvets mite would stamp a lot cos of the irritation round his feet.

But it didn't alter his natural "cob" laid backness ;)

In the meantime, my guy is still a bit itchy, despite second shampoo. Tho (touch wood) it does seem to be a little better...

[abi_pring]

Thanks cvb for all your help and sorry for hijacking this thread!!

[lizzy]

I still havent got to the bottom of Adam's itchyness!

Nothing wrong with teeth or back.

The vet came to see him, but I wasn't there at the time as the yard didn't ring me to say he was there:rolleyes: . I'm 5 minutes away and he was seeing a lot of horses on that day - they said he couldn't find anything.

His itchyness seems to be just about 2 inches at the bottom of his mane, on his withers.

Yesterday, we had a dressage test. I plaited him up and then when I took his rug off I realised that there was just about 1/2 inch of mane left under the blanket - he just wouldn't let me touch it, every time I touched the area it just shook and he kept walking away from me and shaking his head , plaiting never bothers him. In the end I took them all out and did the test unplaited.

Would anyone think its lyce. I also wondered if he is too hot in his rugs and he is getting sore in that area? He is out at night in a heavyweight and a stable rug - we are in fairly mild Dorset.
We did have a horse in our yard who had mites in that area, and she was treated with Flamazine and couldn't be rugged up until it cleared - I don't know what you could do with a clipped (high trace) horse at this time of year if it couldn't be rugged for some reason?

[cvb]

Lizzy

The vet said to us that the shampoo might help anyway, to soothe things, even if it wasn't lice.

I noticed that Equine Pharmacy (or whatever its called) have the shampoo so you wouldn't need to get it via Vets.

Its not easy to shampoo a horse in this weather - I cheated and just did head and neck area as he was coming in. Then its just like he's come in from a rainy day with a wet neck.

I have also resorted to trying to use salve to soothe the itchy bits as well - where he hadn't broken the skin. Made him very gunky but might have helped a bit (difficult to tell).

If he had broken the skin then I just used wound gel on it.

My chap got very hot where he was itchy. Whether the heat was underlying and part of the cause, or a result of all that itching, I don't know. But soothing it did seem to make some sense (treating the symptoms, as well as trying to treat the cause).

[lizzy]

CVB, what salve did you use..

My trainer and I had a real good check of his withers today, and there is no pain there.

Thinking that it might be just an irratated area, caused my rugs, I have been putting a little vaseline around the area for the last two nights - following my mothers advice that vaseline takes the soreness out of anything. He doesn't try to scratch it, so the skin is not broken

[cvb]

Lizzy

I happened to have bought some "Udder Salve" for my mare - this is basically petroleum jelly and boric acid. And I just used that as I had it to hand.

So Vaseline is a pretty good equivalent - just misses the slight antiseptic from the (low level of) boric acid.

I did watch out for any reaction - just in case - and it wasn't on broken skin.

My only concern about using a petroleum jelly based salve is that its a pretty good insulator so keeps heat in ! But this doesn't seem to have been a problem.

On the plus side, p.j is a good moisturiser so if the skin is dry and flakey, this is going to help.