relinquishing the typical "english" contact

[shoniedaspony]

I have ridden a few horses western recently, and the one major thing im having trouble with is relinquiching the egnlish style contact. The instructor kept telling me to have a short rein with a loose contact, and use half-halts as corrections, but mainly using my seat, and by relaxing to slow the horse...

my problem is i instinctively take more of a contact, then the horse speeds up, so i am tense, and i just lose the plot. However this is only on a faster horse, on my friends more chilled horse i have little trouble, seems even stranger as she is ridden bitless!

advice anyone?
thanks

[cvb]

you need to practise changing pace purely from weight and body aids, as this will help you have the confidence to use just the weight of the bit and rein... which is the aim with a "finished" western horse....

I've also been playing with a sort of combined passenger/ride the rail exercise recently and this has helped me too. Its a parelli concept - the passenger lesson is about just that, letting the horse decide where to go and you are just passenger. One of the aspects of "passenger lessons" is that you push down on the horn/withers as you ride.

Ride the rail means they follow the rail at the speed you have set, until you say otherwise.

So in the arena in my western saddle I was asking Fi to stay on the rail in walk (or trot) on a specific rein, and I pushed down with both hands on the horn. Walk was fine. Trot was more interesting :rolleyes: as Fi sort of experimented on me... but it does make you realise that you really do not need to micromanage these horses... its more the "don't make me...." (pick up the reins, pick up the stick, etc) concept from parelli, or "less is more".

However, if you feel out of control - you will find that rein creep happening. So YOU need to feel confident and in control.... practise and experiment and take a few (safe) risks...

[shoniedaspony]

so was this holding the reins? and with what sort of contact?

think i might steal my friends pony to practise on :D as i really trust her, the problem is the other horses i rode were highly trained spanish ones, and not being a highly trained rider it gets more difficult. Ill definately try that next time, thanks.

Also any tips on how to improve my seat aids?

[cvb]

ideally there is no contact with reins when you're doing this. But you may find it easier to start with a "free rein" type contact and ease it out as you experiment. You want to be just be able to pick up the rein and make a small correction if they decide to turn in etc.

My girl tried a few paces changes in trot. If she slowed down I asked her on again. But if she went faster I pretty much wanted her to balance herself, so it was only if she started to get unbalanced and/or break to canter that I made a correction. They WILL settle themselves.

In terms of "seat aids" - have you tried Pat Parelli's thing of "smile to go, yawn to stop" ? Its sounds really daft but it works.

So here's another experiment for you.

While mounted, ask horse to stand. Relax, and let the air out. You should find the horse will also breath out and settle a little.

Now, you are going to ask horse to move off with the minimum amount of effort possible. So with NO LEG AIDS and NO REIN AIDS (hehe), raise your energy levels, smile, sit up - just be more "up". You will almost certainly find the horse does respond, even if its just to pricik an ear. Carry on "raising the energy" (yes you will get to the point where you use a little nudge) til the horse moves off.

Once they move - just maintain that energy level.

Now you're going to ask for a stop. So stop yourself - stop moving, slow the breathing, exhale slowly, yawn... and just bring all movement to stillness. The horse will respond but initially it may take a while. If they just plod on, pick the minimum rein up and ask for the stop.

Practise this - and you will start to find the horse is more responsive and it takes less from you. Be aware of the changes in body tone, tension and weight as you go from "smile" to "yawn".

Then try it in trot ! Start with just varying from slow to fast trot and back. But then get ambitious and go for walk-trot or halt-trot, and back :D

At the start it will be over-exaggerated - you'll be bright and perky, and then you'll be a sack of potatoes... you have to over-do it to help you and horse understand. The horse will almost certainly go "oh thank goodness she's getting the message" ;)

[Sterling]

With a polished western horse, its all about your seat. The deeper you sit, the slower the horse will go. The bit and reins on a western horse are only used for slight collection with a headset. Thats it. I'll see if I can find a picture for you :)

[Sterling]

Here's one

[Sterling]

and another..notice how both horses are extremely light on bit contact-its my seat that is doing most of the work :)

[cvb]

Sterling - I don't think its a problem of knowing what we're aiming for...

Its just us "english" folk tend to find we creep up the reins.... ;)

You get so used to the "micro-management" of english riding that letting well alone feels very worrying at first, and you tend to creep back to what you know - its reassuring and comforting - well for the rider anyhow !

My "baptism by fire" was courtesy of a western place in Wales - who did moonlight beach rides.

So there was me - a mainly english rider - with a western trained horse, no contact, no light, and miles of sand to gallop on :eek:

Its one way to learn that you don't HAVE to have a contact ;)

(By the way, if any folk in Wales are reading this - there used to be a place near Carmarthen called the Flying M. Anyone know what happened to it ?)

[cvb]

shoniedaspony

just seen a neat description for an exercise - from Harry Hobbes

Try this experiment: On a loose rein while mounted on a standing horse, begin to walk energetically in the saddle, just like if you were on the ground (swing your arms and legs forward and rearward - but don't squeeze the horse). Keep this up until the horse takes any step forward, then stop and pet and praise the horse. Repeat this a couple of times and the horse will walk off whenever you start walking in the saddle. Repeat it enough, and the horse will "come to the position of attention" when it feels your energy rise (your preparation to walk), and will start walking off as it feels just your seat bones walking. The horse is now respondeing to the energy in your seat.

You see, the horse follows the rider on its back (unless the rider abdicates the lead role). If you want the horse to go somewhere, you go (start moving with energy) there first (mentally) and the horse will follow from underneath you (carrying you there). When you don't want to go anywhere, just stop walking (moving with energy in the saddle) and the horse will stop. Energy = go; no energy = stop. Practice this to refine it.

In addition, the horse will quickly figure out that it must listen to your seat or it will miss a cue: now the horse is tuned into you. (All with no cues to the face or flanks.)

(from this post http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45709)

[shoniedaspony]

i tried your suggestion today on my share horse who is ridden english, but is an ex medium level dressage horse. She responded very well to the "smile" stage, picked up what i was after really quickly, however she didnt seem to get the "yawn" bit, even after 5 or so tries i was still yusing quite a bit of rein..admittedly this was at the end of a schooling session and she was heading for the gate ;) but having re read your post it is a little clearer.will try again next time i ride :D

another problem is attaining the style of seat western riders have, dont think it helps my position in a western saddle is a little(!) waterski!, even though i know what i am meant to be doing. Anyway, i will persevere! a mad dash down a beach seems a fair way to relinquish the contact, pity the place seems to have disappeared!

thanks

[cvb]

I think they may still be there ! I did a quick google and there still seems to be a phone number !

There are also holidays in places like Sweden - Leslie Desmond supports them and says that if you really want to know how to gallop, thats the place to learn.

Not many fences about in the north of Sweden ;)