bits and tongue relief

[notpoodle]

i have tried angel in a myler comfort snaffle (we still dont have decent brakes in canter!). it was just the 'normal' comfort snaffle model.

i was not sure she liked it (she seemed a little tense in it, i have tried it a couple of times) but couldnt put my finger on WHY she didnt like it.

then i discovered the following

both her happymouth and her french link provide some tongue relief (happy mouth has a groove in the middle, french link slightly raised in the middle) - she prefers both of these to the current myler.

could it be that she doesnt like bits that go straight across her tongue without some sort of groove or raised bits?

would that make sense?

julia
x

[Mehitabel]

yes, especially if she has the typical native fat tongue and low palate. the FL can follow the curve of the tongue, as it has the links - the myler is probably quite straight.

[notpoodle]

yes the myler i tried is curved towards the front (it's generally more of a U-shape!), but does not have any raised part or dent in the middle. i'll see if i can try one with a low port or something.

julia
x

ps: @ es in case you're wondering why i am STILL trying to find the right bit ... the french link is okay in general, but i find that our brakes in canter are not all that good. i dont want a more severe bit (she really doesnt need that), but i figured that she might stop leaning as much in canter if i find something she is totally comfy with.

[Mehitabel]

i thought the happy mouth was the one she was better in - or did i miss something?

remember that she is a stocky little thing, and quite possibly not terribly balanced in canter. can she do a 20m circle in canter at a steady speed on a loose rein without rushing or going back to trot? if not, then the leaning or loss of brakes may well just be that she is relying a bit on momentum to keep going and just can't stop very fast because she physically can't, if you see what i mean. i've just started schooling petal again since she had 4 months off sick, and her balance is shot to pieces in the school. our brakes are dodgy at the moment simply because she hasn't got the balance, strength and coordination to stop in a hurry!

[notpoodle]

she's okay in the happymouth as well i *think* but no brakes in canter either :rolleyes:

we can canter circles now (hooray!) but often she'll either hang on to the bit and 'charge' (had an incident with a petrified lady in a beginners lesson in the arena we were in. obviously angel wasnt anywhere near her, but she said it made her feel quite uneasy. her instructor was gawping something like 'angel can go at quite some pelt when she wants to can't she?' whoops ...) or she'll keep in cantering in slow motion and its quite hard to get her back into trot without REALLY checking on that outside rein - something im not overly keen on doing :rolleyes:

she's fine in walk and trot with brakes (that has improved a lot and i have learned a lot about how to stop the pony!), but she'll lean quite heavily in canter (not just me who spotted that either. instructor rode her briefly, said the same thing, and a friend of mine - who is an excellent rider- said it, too)

julia
x

[No_Angel]

How about trying a ported bit like a kimblewick without the curb or slotts. I use a ported mouth hanging cheek snaffle on my cob and he goes well in it, but he wears a slotted kimblewick for hacking.

[notpoodle]

not that keen on kimblewicks - i dont really want to upsize, seeing i already downsized since i got her (she came with a gag she really didnt approve of!)

julia
x

[Mehitabel]

hanging on and charging is a common symptom of lackjing balance - they find it hard to do what you want, so take the easy option which is to bugger off, as then the rider normally thinks 'aargh, can't stop' and concentrates on stopping while forgetting about asking for the thing the pony was evading in the first place...

it could also be (another) trying you out thing - if she can do it, and just doesn't fancy it, and yet you have no trouble in walk and trot, i'd suspect she's not in the slightest bit uncomfy in her bit - as that will normally show up in all three paces, she's kjust seeing what she can get away with...

try a few times doing your hard check on the outside rein, say 'no! trot!' in a big loud voice so she knows exactly what you want, and see if it continues. given it's just in canter, i'd say she's either fiding it hard to slow down or she's trying it on.

physical discomfort very rarely only manifests itself as not being able to do a canter-trot transition.

[notpoodle]

hehe thats exactly what i am doing :rolleyes:

we've been practising it quite a lot as well. the canter thing doesnt make me nervous in the 'argh cant stop' sense, as i know she WILL stop (when she feels she's had enough that is. only that then i ask her to continue because she shouldnt really be picking and choosing the speed herself!) and not do anything stupid. most of all, its a bit of a nuisance :rolleyes:

julia
x

[Mehitabel]

i didn't mean the rider gets nervous - just distracted.

rider asks her to circle, she runs fast as the circle is difficult to do, rider forgets about circle and concentrates on stopping - so she's gotten out of circling. once you've asked her to do something and she has no reason not to, she *must* do it, especially with a cheeky monkey pony like her. so if you say circle, she must circle, whether it's at 100mph or whether you have to kick every stride.

if she is speeding up because she finds it hard to balance herself so needs to rely on momentum, that's schooling and practice. she needs to get light on the forehand, take her weight back onto the back end and balance herself - so do less of the things she finds really hard and work on the building blocks that will make it easier - general supplenessand lightness. if she's doing it because she's a cheeky monkey, then don't let yourself be distracted by the evasions and make her do as you ask, just like all the other battles - it has to be the easy option for her to obey you, and masses of praise when she does.

[notpoodle]

she can charge on circles as well :rolleyes: the little horror :)

weirdly enough, its either hard graft to get her into canter in the first place or hard to stop her from launching herself into it. either way, once she has started ...

julia
x

[Mehitabel]

that says to me that she find the transition difficult so tries to avoid it. it is hard going from trot to canter, much harder than we feel it ought to be. again, balance and suppleness, pole work so she becomes very aware of where she is putting her feet so she finds the change of leg sequence easier.

the more you say, the less it sounds like a bitting issue.

[notpoodle]

you reckon? that would be handy :)

ive done some pole work with her and she seemed surprised by the fact she actually has four feet she can LIFT :D

julia
x

[Mehitabel]

yep. she wouldn't be comfy in walk and trot and then it suddenly start hurting in canter.

imagine you're jogging, and sudenly someone tells you to start skipping, or hopping - the equivalent of going trot--canter (and we only have 2 legs!). it's not automatic, we have to think about it, and the faster and less balanced we are in the jogging, the harder it is.

imagine running full pelt down a slight hill (the equivalent of being on the forehand - unbalanced, and using the momentum of the speed to keep going) and having to start skipping, as opposed to jogging slowly on a flat surface.

[notpoodle]

what sort of stuff should i be doing to get her off the forehand? poles, but i don't want to do that too often as she might get fed up with it.

julia
x

[Mehitabel]

it's easier done and explained in a lesson - have you got any lined up?

but transitions, lateral work, asking her to use her back end and step under with the hind legs - slow and balanced circles and turns, anything to get her thinking, carryinfg herself and balancing herself.

why would she get fed up with poles any more than wih normal flatwork? most ponies love it. to make it more interesting you can alter the distances between them so she starts to shorten and lengthen strides, have them on a circle, raise them, all sorts.

[angelfben]

hi not-poodle, I read a really useful article the other day all about the shape of a horses mouth and how this affects the bit's action, might help give you some idea of why she reacts to certain bits differently? If you like I would be happy to type or scan it and post or PM it, just let me know

[notpoodle]

@ angelbfben: sounds interesting! stuff like that is always enlightening and i love reading it :) was it in a magazine or on the net? pm me for my email addy :)

@ es: as always (dont know what i'd do without your advice sometimes!) your advice about the circles made sense! i tried it today! asked for canter (in a corner), she started bombing, i manoevred her onto a circle regardless (quite scary for me, ive fallen over with horses before ...) and *surprise* she slowed down and we got two rather nice circles in a speed choosen by myself :D am very pleased!

julia
x

[hackedoff]

as usual es has beat me to it :D it does sound like Angel's got the ol' pony-on-the-forehand-run poles will make her step under and through and 'dummy transitions' will get her off the forehand.