Arm/hand carriage at withers or above???

[friedegund]

Hello,
I am back in lessons after a 20 year abstinance of riding, having a great time, very sore, learning lots, have learned SO much from this board, read as many posts as I can. CVB taught me about impulsion, Galadriel's site taught me leg contact, now I have another question.

I am being taugt to keep my elbows bent and my hands up in the air, my forearm and upper arm bent at a right angle, with the straight line to bit from elbow, however, this seems awkward looking, and a few times the school horse has pulled me forward and onto his neck with a good tug. I feel unbalanced.

Way back when christ wore short pants and I first started riding, I remember carrying hands much lower, at withers.

What gives?

[galadriel]

The straight line from bit to elbow is very important. Depending on the horse's head carriage and how you fit with him physically, your hands may be higher or lower with relation to the horse.

It should not feel awkward, and if it does,then I'd guess there's something else going on. Remember that your elbows must be loose and able to move back and forth with the give and take of his head. If you are trying to force them to stay hanging straight down, this will definitely make you feel stiff. The upper arm should be vertical *on average*--but it should allow the arm/elbow to swing slightly forward and back as the horse moves his head.

[DavidH]

I have this issue with just about every pupil I start to teach.
galadriel is spot on with her rsponse. What I do warn people is that they are likely to feel more vulnerable with their hands held correctly as it frees and relaxes the upper body. It also unlocks the front end of the horse which allows the shoulder to move more freely thus allowing the back end to work through more. Hence more power becomes available to horse and rider

[intouch]

While agreeing with above, I do think that beginners/returners can be better with the hands closer to the withers, it does give a bit of stability until balance is established.
Many riding school schoolmasters will carry their heads lower with beginners than with than the experienced rider, so that would place the bit/hand/elbow line slightly lower.
I spend most of my time teaching beginners, and the comfort and safety of horse and rider at that level may bend the rules a little!

[Tangle]

I'd agree with Galadriel that if you feel akward and/or unbalanced there may be a slightly deeper issue than just where your hands are.

How do you reach the point of having your hands higher? The reason why I ask is that I've found there's two ways I tend to do it and they result in a very different overall position:

The first is if I'm not thinking or am being very lazy - I'll just lift my forearms. As my posture isn't usually that great that usually means my back and shoulders are a little rounded. Because my back and shoulders are rounded, it's quite hard work to keep my arms there - plus I'm pretty unstable to tugs from the reins.

The second is when my brain's in gear ;). I'll lift from the abdomen, through the chest and roll my shoulders forwards/over/back/down. Doing it this way puts all of me in a much better posture - the arms being higher is an incidental part of this, and the whole frame is supported by my stomach (which then gets tired and so I then revert to the first version :rolleyes: ). If you can get into this position (complete with abdominal support :p) you should find that you can withstand the tugs much more easily.

[friedegund]

Thank you thank you thank you!!!!

Now it makes sense, My instructor is always at me for being too literal with her instruction, Galadriel, I probably am much too stiff, I tend to lock my elbows, and need to loosen up and swing. David, what you say about freeing front end makes sense, and Tangle, sitting here in my computer chair I sat as you described, with abdomen supporting, and guess what? Rib cage opens up (so that is what she has been talking about in lessons) head tends to be more striaght ahead.

It is starting to make more sense, I tell you, I don't know what I would do without this board, thanks so much!