who to listen to? my instructor or you lot! :)

[westley_jacobs]

well talking to my IN today, i said if she ever sees a horse sutable for me,please tell us and we will take a look- although i told her something broken pref and going on.

She says she wants to see me growing up with a foal, she says her filly is perfect forme and she says im ready to take on a foal.

Now i am *soo* confussled, who do i listen to?

she has all these ambitions for me and we get on so well, and surey shed know what im capable of? seeing as she teaches me and tells me what to do....but then everyone here says i shouldnt take on a youngster,

my IN is already talking about us lungeing, and breaking the filly next year, and has said i could have her for £500.

the filly will make around 15.2/3.

she has such high hopes for me and says im so capable for my age, but i dont know, she wouldnt lie surely !!

any help others perspectives much apprectiated.

[HairyCob]

Umm, how old is this filly? Cause if she's ready to be broken next year, she isn't a foal, she's a two- three (and I hope three) year old.... in which case what your instructor says about seeing you grow up with a foal seems to me like a good reason to palm you off with a young horse s/he doesn't want any more.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the bit about her wanting to see you grow up with a foal, and her 'foal' being perfect for you just doesn't add up with it being ready to break next year- are you sure someone isn't trying to pull a fast one here??

[Tootsie4U]

Been tricked this way myself.

This is not insinuating your instructor is this way, but here's what I fell for - hind sight is 20/20 ;)

If she sells you this foal/filly, she gets the profits of the sale. Surely you'll need her help bringing it on, therefore more money for her for the training. Surely then afterwards, you'll be asking her to give you lessons on the mare - more money. If she owns the barn, you'll have to have a place to keep it - more money in her pocket.

Its a win win situaiton for instructors to sell you a horse (ensuring you the whole time you're capable! HA!) and then have you ask for their help. She may be a nice lady, but she's got to put food on the table doesnt she?

Bottom line - a young horse does NOT make a good first horse. Do yourself and this horse a favor and pass it by :)

[westley_jacobs]

no! i know shes not like that, she means any youngster but recommend her filly, who is from good lined parents apparently (well i know iv met her dam and sire- and shes cobby, so is a good doer)

shes around 18 months, and i know shes not trying to get rid of the filly because this other girl at the yard whos 16 has asked to buy the filly, even had her parents say yes.
and my IN said no, because this girl was'nt experienced enough and she didnt want her to go to waste, understandable.

She doesnt neccesarlily want me to buy that filly, just a youngster, but if i was to do that id buy one of hers because theyre all lovely foals and lovely temperements.

[westley_jacobs]

no, she helps with the breaking completely free, iv talked to her previous customers and she only charges a measly £10/week for livery, thats woods, gallop Tracks, all weather school ad out door school, so ts VERY CHEAP!

[HairyCob]

Westley you asked for advice, and Tootsie and I gave our opinon, which for me at least remains the same- your instructor is trying to pull a fast one, or someone is, and a young horse for a first horse is never a good idea.

Sorry, but that is what I think!

Cross posted, so edited to say: It all sounds too good to be true, so it probably isn't true.

[shakari]

sorry but a youngster is a bit different to a riding school pony. but hey ho you'll learn.

[aliw]

Hmmmmmmm, this is a tough one!!

Good points: It would be a brilliant experience, you know this filly, so you know that she has no scary experiences with horrible people, and your instructor would be interested and be helping you all the way. Also, I think it would be a good bonding process.

Not so good points: It would be your first horse, but if you have your instructor who has known this filly for a long time, I don't really see this as a problem.

You know you instructor - if you say she isn't trying to fleece you, then she isn't, we can't relly say!

I'd say go for it, at least if it goes wrong you'll know, and not be wondering "what if....."
It is also so rewarding working with a youngster!
Good luck west!

[shandy84]

What happens if you aren't cut out to own a youngster and it becomes a little b***er bet she wont be so keen to help out then?!

Lets just say from personal experience people who offer to help are happy to help as long as the going is good any tough points and they vanish in the blink of an eye.

Practical Bits!
You're only 14 how could you cope with having a child??? A horse is no different if you're not able to look after a baby a foal/youngster is not a sensible idea

Many people see youngsters as the easy option and cheap BUT new saddles every year for at least 2 years new bridles, bits, rugs possibly every six months, requirement to have lessons (a must if novice owner), removal of wolf teeth, starting injections etc etc etc the list goes on they are more expensive long term than an older horse and you won't be able to ride it well for at least two to three years, Shandy has been backed 9months and still is only on walk work!

Can you cope with the danger factor are you sensible enough, a youngster will test you around every corner read tootsies posts about bon and mine about Bramble, Bramble broke my ribs for christsake!

What happens long term with this glorious relationship when you decide to go to college? Career? This pony will only just be old enough to be a good alrounder and you will probably have to sell it!

BOYS - now that's a biggie you are too young at the moment to have a real interest in boys but it will happen and unless you are a very lucky lady and find a horsey boy, I can see the little one being put on the back burner.

Also you are at school, where between hobbies, school, homework, and friends are you going to have the time to bring on the youngster It has taken me two years to get Shandy so good and it takes sweat tears and a hell of a lot of time.

Maybe IN is being friendly but not sensible or practical, she may end up interfering too much or working with your youngster so much it's more hers than yours.

Now don't get me wrong - i am not against first time owners buying a youngster if they have help, but I think under 18's should not as they have n ot got their lives stable and sorted enought to cope with the commitment a youngster demands.

You asked who's being sensible, there it is black and white argue if yo wnant but those are the facts!

[Tootsie4U]

and sorry to sound so pessimistic but what if the horse does become 'ruined' ? What the will you do with her? Who will have her? Is that fair to her or even you?

I really do hate to come off so negative but part of the responsibility of getting any animal is to weight the good and the bad and that certainly is one.

Very good of you to ask for advise though - thats a good first sign of a responsible owner :)

[westley_jacobs]

Originally posted by shandy84
W
Practical Bits!
You're only 14 how could you cope with having a child??? A horse is no different if you're not able to look after a baby a foal/youngster is not a sensible idea



im 16 actually...just turned 16.
:o

[shandy84]

still under 18 and too young to take on a baby!

Nice to see you have realised that other than your age, my post actually has a lot of sense to it!

[westley_jacobs]

well everyones entitled to opinion..i take everyones advice and believe me i do think alot about these things, i certainly dont want to rush or make mistakes!!i love horses dearly, oh btw she has another horse for sale, a 4 y/old connemara x dales gelding, hes broken and iv actually schooled him myself and hes adorable, but he is 1200, maybe if i beg and plead with mum!LoL

[Kalypso]

gotta agree with HC, it sounds too good to be true...free breaking in?? 10 pounds/week for livery + all that other stuff?? Honestly, I'd not touch the offer!!

Westley, hun, what happened with that cute chestnut horse you were intersted in?? and wasn't there another one too?

I honestly think that you should go for a horse that's a bit older, and knows the ropes. I am not saying i think you are inexperienced or not (i don't know how experienced you are, really), but because you are still young. Give it some time. There is a perfect horse out there for you....you'll find it.

[Tor&Warrior]

But what does really worry me slightly....

but he is 1200, maybe if i beg and plead with mum!LoL

Thats only 700 more than the filly. Trust me I know from experience you cannot be thinking of money like that and thinking of taking on a baby. That 700 will soon dispear!
I've had Vin just over a year. Was 6months when I bought him. I hate to think what I have paid out on him. Well over a 1000 atleats, should probably work it out would probably be a hell of a shock! And that is NOT including any feed, livery, hay, bedding, and day to day keep like you would with every horse. I'm talking about VET BILLS! Trust me buy a baby and the vet might aswell move in next door! Replacing rugs he either grows out of or destroys. Head collars. Damage he does to fencing just being a "baby"! And we haven't even started him wearing a bridle, doing any sort of work, tack, equipment etc. Think how much its going to cost to buy new rugs and tack every few months. Babies are a far more expensive, extremeley risky option.

You say your instructor plans to break her next year but then you say she's 18 months old? She would only be ready for very light back next year, certainly no riding or anything special. You need to think so carefully because you are DEFINETLEY NOT getting a cheaper option. You risk getting a more expensive option than you could ever imagine if things didn't go quite to plan! And your horses isn't even rideable. And even when it is your going to have years of backing, schooling, greeness, little reward and not doing alot. If she's 18month now, that means it'll be approx another 4 years before you have a rideable, possibly small/local all rounder, but even then who will probably be pretty green.

Once you buy that filly she is your responsibility. Now I know your instructor says she would be there to help you all the way as much as you need but I don't think thats enough. Life is never certain. We cannot guarantee people will always be there, especially not somebody who is merely a friend or instructor. So many thing could change over night. And whether you like it or not, its true. Especially as the filly is so young, thats alot of years you will be very dependant on her. Now where would it leave you if for what ever reason things changed and she wasn't there. Could you cope alone? Because if you couldn't guarantee you could I really don't think its a good idea. One thing you will learn is to never trust peoples promises, doesn't matter how good a friend they are now. I'm not saying anything against you instructor, I'm just trying to think rationally, Its just the way life is. It could be for a totally genuine reason but she cannot make you such a guarantee it just isn't realistic. Would if something happened beyond her control?

Your instructor say she wants to see you growing up with a youngster. Problem is it just isn't as wonderful as she makes it sound. Seeing you having great fun on an older, school master should be more rewarding for her as your instructor! Not battling with a baby! Of course it has up and the rewards are second to none, but trust me it has it's downs! More downs than ups! I've owned 4 youngsters and backed before I got Vinny but nothing could of prepared for having him. I'm extremley lucky in that my funds are unlimited and I have my own yard, without these things I could never of coped. And all I'm left to show for the last year and a bit is cocky 19month old who's just hitting the "terrible twos", is bordering 15.3hh and a good M/W hunter already. Everything he ever learnt in the past with regards to ground manners seem to of disappeared out the window. I know its just a stage but its a hard slog day in day out with absolutley no rewards, well not at the moment anyway. And I know its going to be a very long time before I did see the rewards. And as far as youngsters go, although Vin is very big which I know makes things more difficult, I think he is a very straight forward laid back baby, always has been. Doesn't make him easy though, just makes me lucky that he's "easier" than alot could be. Where as my rideable Thoroughbred, I don't even notice I have him and he doesn't take a fraction of the time to look after and deal with.

It's not your age which worries me at all or experience as I don't know about yours its that you don't even seem sure yourself. When I bought Vin there wasn't anything I wanted more in the world than my own baby. I would of done anything to have him and done anything for him. This is how you need to be going into buying a baby, with no doubt in your mind! You say your instructor wants you to have a baby but you don't say YOU want want. If your not sure now, how sure are you going to be the first time you get bitten, kicked, barged over, squished, have no money and are working so hard for a horse with little rewards. Because there the joys which come with owning a baby!

I don't mean to sound horrible at all, I'm just talking from experience of having a baby. From what you say I just don't thinki t would be a good idea. I know how much heart ace they can bring and at the moment just think you would be so much happier with something older!

You're only 14 how could you cope with having a child???

Shady that made me giggle!! After Vinny I think I could cope with 5 babies!!!!!:D

but I think under 18's should not
:o Not all under 18's!:o :D

[chev]

Westley, is this the pally filly that your instructor offered you before? Or a different one? If the same, how come she's not sold her yet in spite of telling you before that others are interested? And if it's not the same one, why is your instructor trying to sell her foals to you again??

Can you post a piccy of the filly - if she really is that nice at least we can tell you that, and if not, then we can tell you that too.

All the reasons that you decided a baby would be wrong for you still stand - and that was your decision, nobody else's.

edit to add that I totally disagree with your instructor saying she'd be ready to back next year too. She'd have to be at least 3 before I'd happily back her.

[shandy84]

It's different Tor if you have your own place and you know what you're doing with life, you're pretty settled but all Westly's posts show her lack of direction and commitment. I mean we get a different horse shown to us each week, normally completely unsuitable and if it is suitable she never goes to see it :rolleyes:

I would agree with Chev that the pony won't be ready for backing until three, my bub is fastly approaching three and has only just started some proper work, but it will not be until she is four rising five that she will jump etc.

I think you would be better having a horse that could be just that YOURS. If you get a youngster or a really unsuitable horse, you will forever be dependent on other people for help - from lessons, to general handling, to hacking etc.

I have had loads of little arguments with my girls they are much like toddlers and so can be the most frustrating creatures on the planet. David and I have loaned previously to getting Shandy and restarted an OTT Arab so we knew what we were getting into because we'd been able to work with another horse, with a lot of help, to get him restarted.

i actually had to move Shandy from that same barn as the YO was treating her as if she were her filly and not mine, just because she had helpd us with our other horse. Shandy is worth possibly between £1000 and £2000 yet I have spent at least triple that on all her belongings and vets bills (babies are clumsy creatures)

The four year old would be more suitable because the basics are there and at only 700 more than the filly a wise buy, because you don't seem t be realistic about how much it costs to bring a baby on

[eventerbabe]

sorry, but i have to agree with the others. sounds to me like she's trying to palm this horse off on you coz your an easy target. we had our instructor do a similar thing to us. she wanted us to take another clients highland pony on a years loan. turns out she wanted us to take it, pay for lessons, school it on as it was very green, then give it back once its owner had had her baby. no chance.

at 16 you are too young to be taking on a youngster yourself. i was 13 when i got my boy, who was almost 4, and it was years of hell. i learnt a lot but would not reccomend it. there were times i hated him and wanted to sell him. this whole situation sounds too good to be true, remember, you don't get something for nothing.

[Jessey]

If you think you can handle it thats good but think very long and hard. I only had a horse on loan at 16 and had to give it up while I did my exams and stuff as it was just too much (this was my own decision). I have a 19 month old filly now but she takes just as much time as my other horse who I am preping for competitions this year.
Also consider that if you get the filly you will need to buy tack, and trust me, that will be over £700.
If your instructor is so keen for you to have the filly could you not offer to work with her for a while, kind of a loan, then reasess the situation in 6 months and see if you would really want to buy her, it can be very repetative and boring working with real youngsters just as it can be very rewarding, and think if you brought it you wouldn't be able to do any serious riding for about another two and a half or three years - thats a real long time to wait if you haven't got anything else to get on in the mean time.
I know this sounds like a dream but I think that you would end up regretting it in the long run.

J

[Cheko]

Firstly, I'm not questionning your experience as a rider, I'm questionning your experience with young horses. As others have said they are a different kettle of fish to the ones you have been used to at your riding school. Young horses need to be brought on slowly. Even if you could ride this one when she's broken in, you would need to turn her away for the winter to grow on. A youngster shouldn't even be backed before the age of 3. I would also look at the seller's motive for selling you such a young horse. They are not easy. If you buy now and say back her in the spring, you could spend the summer riding her (about 4 times a week at most) gently and spend time showing her things such as she would meet out on a hack. A young horses' attention span is not very much, so you could only do any serious work with her for about 20 mins at most. I would think very carefully about this. I'm thinking of the horse here. :mad:

[notpoodle]

if you feel in the slightest uncomfortable with the idea - dont do it. i know i wouldnt! the horse might be really sweet and lovely now, but what if she turns into something quite different? youd also be very dependent on your instructor to help you with her etc.

it sounds to me that the instructor wants to sell her filly and would rather it stayed on the yard ...

julia
x

[canadianbeaver]

could you not just get an older, schoolmaster type. I understand cost is an issue, but something that costs you about £2000-3000 are going to be much more able to do the sorts of things that you are planning on doing. Babies cost SOOOO much and are emotionally draining as well as physically. Why are you so keen on a baby as a first horse?

[Chromelotus]

I strongly agree with what everyone is saying. I question the motives of your instructor, I know that you know her better than any of us but to me it sounds like the recommendations she has been making are entirely unsuitable and, truth be told, somewhat irresponsible considering the circumstances!

There are some incredibly wonderful people to be met in the equine world but it is also notorious for its 'dodgy' fraternity who are absolute experts at coming across as your best mate with only your best interests at heart when really all they see is potential personal gain for themselves. I have had a couple of 'too good to be true offers' which turned out to be nightmares in disguise, I could tell some serious horror stories. These people prey on those that they perceive to be easy to manipulate and take advantage of the fact that you seek and respect their advice and opinions. I shudder to think of the sweet talking, super-friendly, enthusiastic and bubbly horse people who have turned out to be money grubbing, two-faced, vemon spitting, cheating swines. I have come across too many of these types to ever trust a 'too good to be true' offer again :mad:

I'm so sorry, this must come across as very strong, I am not insinuating that you are naive or that your instructor is a crook but I'm just reading the cards you have put down on the table and thinking worse case scenario. Whatever the case may be I don't think that the recommendations which have been made to you will result in you achieving your maximum happiness. :( Even if your instructor is entirely genuine I maintain that an unbroken baby will just NOT make a good first horse for a young girl, there are just too many complications, not to mention dangers involved, I'm so sorry! :(

[Cheko]

I couldn't agree with u more. It's not only the horseword that's kinda 'corrupt' in that way either! It was the last riding stable where I kept a horse at livery before moving out of London. The two lady owners of the yard, became friendly with a colleague of mine who rode there together with her young daughter. Each day, she was at the yard helping out and generally crawling around and the YO was hypocritcally recipricating. They had an indoor school built and one Sunday evening had a Grand Opening (wow!). Guess what? Non of the livery owners were invited - all the helpers and 'crawler helpers' were there. And, it was the livery owners that were going to use the school. I agreed to look after this 'friend's 2 kids on the night. She didn't say where she was going, although she did tell me it was a really good show when she got back. Apparently people were told not to mention anything about it cos they might upset the livery owners! By the way, the owners of the stabels didn#t have a good word to say about any of them. Nowadays it doesn't do to get friendly with these people who run livery yards/riding stables. I kept my Exmoor at a yard where there was acres of off road riding. The 2 women who owned the place pretended to be everyone's friends, coffee etc in their house. When people left they told everyone else how much they hated that particular person! I guess that's just being a human being! No wonder I prefer my pets.
Tho on saying that, I have now got Falcon at another yard in where I kept ponies in the 70s and 80s. After using many other livery yards, have discovered this is really the best one and run by nice (genuine) peope as well! Sorry about the length of this post.:mad:

[H & Bailey]

Its completely up to you what you do but think what you want to do with the mare.? you say she is only 18 months,she shouldnt be broken till at least 3 years old.If thats what you fancy then go for it but what will your pals be doing with their horses? jumping ,long rides out ,shows etc which you probably wont be able to do.young horses need alot of time and attention to keep them going correctly and in my experience with my sister this may slip with getting sidetracked by boys and going out with your mates partying:
it does sound like your instructor wants a good home and rider for her filly and knows this you will give her but is more in her interest and may not be what would actually be the best option for you.she seems a good cheap price and if has such good breeding she should be worth alot more?
Also ive had the situation of buying a horse from someone and keeping it on their premises.This DOESNT work as the old owner was carrying on as if the horse was still theirs and picking fault because i did things my own way-which i wanted to do as it was my horse!It came to a head when i took her out for a hack and it reared up and nearly sat on a car!I was upset and someone who knew the owner asked who was feeding her.i said me but when asking the old owner he was feeding her as too-half an 8litre bucket of eventer mix!!!! I asked him not to feed her and he said he would do what he wanted so i moved her.
So if you got the mare and this sort of thing happens would you be able to cope on your own to break and fetch on the horse with no one elses help?If you can confidently say yes then the choice is yours.
another option would be not to buy the mare but ask if you can just help her with its breaking etc? and be its rider.then you may loose out as you could get attatched only for her to sell it on when youve put alot of time into it.

[westley_jacobs]

Thanks all advice good and bad taken :0)

ALways keepmy options open and there are soo many horses for sale at not ridiculous prices