To Shoe Or Not To Shoe

[amattox3]

I was reading that shoeing horses is bad for them. I have a 2 year old, will be 3 in May. She has been shoed since I got her in July of 04. This is what I found out:

Decreased Shock Absorption: Shoes decrease the hoof’s ability to absorb shock by 70-80% by not allowing the hoof to expand properly upon weight bearing.

Hoof Contraction: When a hoof grows, it does so not only in length but also in diameter. Since the metal shoe doesn’t become wider, it contracts the growing hoof in a squeezed position. Proper hoof function (contracting and expanding) is hindered and the hoof is forced into the all too narrow hoof shape. Contracted hooves are oval rather than round and have very narrow frogs and heel bulbs.

Prevents Development of Young Horse’s Feet: A horse’s coffin bone grows and develops until they are about five years old. If a horse is shod before that age, the constricting influence of the shoe prevents normal growth of this all important bone, predisposing the horse to lifetime hoof problems.

I was wondering if any has always shoed their horses and if so if they had ever had any problems with it. Any help that anyone could give me would be great, thank you!

[Tangle]

I think shoeing horses can be bad for horses if it is done badly. It's dangerous to generalise - some horses will be much happier barefoot all their life. Others will struggle to do any ridden work without shoes.

Shoeing doesn't have to be a bad thing - done well it can literally work miracles to bring a lame horse sound. We bought a horse, fifi, last summer knowing that she had something up with her feet. Xrays suggested it was definately not laminitis but more likely poor foot balance causing pain within the foot. 3 doses of corrective shoeing and her movement is 100 times better :). During that time she had (still has) nylon pads between her hoof and the metal shoes. Between the 1st and 3rd shoeing her feet got 1 size bigger, all in width :). She's bare behind and her rear hooves are coping with that absolutely fine. Possibly in time her fronts will as well, but we won't know that for a while.

I can't coment on the specific merits or disadvantages of shoeing young horses - just don't have any experience in that area.

There's a site our surgical farrier put us on to that we found very informative: Hope for Soundness (http://www.hopeforsoundness.com/). It discusses a number of the issues you bring up.

I'm sure you're aware of this, but just in case - remember your horse will still need to see the farrier regularly to check her foot balance whether she's shod or not ;)

[virtuallyhorses]

Don't believe everything you read ;) I can imagine where you have picked up these 'truths'.

Ask your farrier to show you the top (hoof) side of a worn shoe one day - you will clearly see the marks of where the hoof continually expands and contracts on top of the shoe with weight bearing.

Anyhow, always read more than one opinion and consider just how many horses are currently shod without "lifetimes of hoof problems" :) The decision will be partly yours to make and partly the horse's conformation\hoof - some horse's just don't have the genetic hoof makeup to go barefoot so shoes will be required. If in doubt check with your farrier - most will happily tell you -' try it and see'

[entreat]

Making the decision to go barefoot isn't easy. But if you do choose the natural option (for what ever reasons)...

Please make sure your farrier knows how to bare-foot trim!!

It has taken me nearly an entire year to realise my farrier is possibly the worst farrier in world for bare-foot horses. My TB came to us in March last year with over-grown toes, but altogether a nice hoof. I would probably say his frogs were abit small, but otherwise had a good high sole. When I look at his hooves now, I dispare. His frogs have widened nicely, but his soles are completely flat - as are the rest of our boys. :mad: I think this is because our farrier knows nothing about barefoot horses, and trims them so short that you would think the farrier had just 'forgotten' to put shoes on! There's no attempt at shape or natural balance!! That was the last time he'll be doing their feet.

I should've taken a stand earlier, but was pretty new to the horsey world, and this guy is the farrier my OH's family have used for donkeys years. My OH's brother even claimed that I would have no luck getting a different farrier out to the farm (even though there's a riding school about 15mins away!!).

I have the number of a new farrier that should come out to us, does a great bare-foot trim, and at a very reasonable price. I think I'll call him next week.

Alright.. rant over ;)

Edit:
Just thought I'd add that our horses don't usually have any lameness problem from this farrier's work, but are usually tender on rocks/gravel for a week after he's been.

[Jessey]

I know shoes can be great and work wonders for some horses but here is my reacent experiance:
I had Qaboos shod as a three year old when he was broken as he got a little foot sore. He is now 6 nearly 7, I worked with a very good farrier (Nick) until july when we moved, Nick would always trim his toes well back and try to keep his foot in good balance but Qaboos' feet grow really quickly (always shod every 6 weeks), we always ended up with a very elongated foot (oval shaped). Got another friends farrier to shoe him when we moved as we were having trouble getting a farrier sorted and he also commented about the shape of the foot and how his heels were dropping. Well, we finally got a farrier sorted and the first time he came out he said about the shape of his feet and that if I wasn't careful we could end up with fully collapsed heels. He advised me to remove the shoes completely for at least 6 months which we have done. His feet have now been trimmed 3 times and they look a million times better, they are now round and the angle of the hoof is looking better and we hope the heals should return to normal soon. He has not been foot sore at all and doing road work seems to help keep those toes trimmed in between when the farrier comes. I have also noticed that he is alot happier in his work and has stoped draging his toes. As long as he stays sound he won't be shod again and the same goes for my filly when we start working her (shes 19 months at the mo). This is just my personal experiance but I have also had horses before that couldn't cope without shoes.
Why do you have your filly shod, was she foot sore when you got her?

J

[shirley]

It really does depend on the type of work you will eventually be doing, what the foot is like etc.
We have two youngsters, one 6 and another 4, neither have been shod. Personally they do not need to be shod their feet are in a very good healthy state, they are not doing any road work to speak of. Our farrier trims them every 6 - 7 weeks or so, so they are used to him and having feet handled etc. My cob who is 13 is shod and had been since we had him 5 years ago. We do a bit of road work etc so I feel that keeping him shod is best for him. Again making sure the hoof is in good condition etc, shod and trimmed regularly is a top priority. I have also considered that when he is older and decreases the amount of work we do then to take off his back shoes and eventually his front ones, again gradually over time.
Shoeing at 2 still seems a little young, but getting him used to seeing the farrier, letting the farrier put him through the way feet are treated as if being shod will be great experience for him. Does your youngster get trimmed around others that are being shod? This we introduced ours to as a matter of course, so as they could get used to the smoke, noise, hammering etc and not be frightened if they ever do need to be shod.
Hope this helps.

[eventerbabe]

i have to agree with virtuallyhorses, look how many horses are shod without any problems??????? my lamanitic would be very, very foot sore if she didn't have heart bars on to help support her feet. my cob has been shod since we got him age 3 (nearly 8 years ago) and never had any trouble with foot problems. he has superb feet and my farrier often asks to use him in shoe making competitions at local shows. i think the major hurdle is finding a good, reliable, knowledgable farrier.

[Bebe]

i think the major hurdle is finding a good, reliable, knowledgable farrier

Yes, this is the major hurdle. I've only met two, one left the country and the other is so unreliable at turning up for appt's that it negates any benefit that you get from the quality of his work. Shoeing for shoe making competitions has little bearing on the standard of trim the horse is getting in my experience.

Unshod horses are not ruled out from doing roadwork either. I have to do roadwork on my barefoot mare as part of her remedial care (after a farrier messed up her hooves). She's as comfy on tarmac as she is on grass. There are barefoot horses taking part in 100 mile endurance rides and, more recently, there are barefoot racehorses (admittedly few and far between but the fact that there are any says a lot).

I personally don't think any horse should be shod at aged two though.

[Gill]

As bebe says roadwork on smooth tarmac is good for barefoot horses and builds strong feet. Obviously you need to start gradually. There is far less concussion than in shod horses.

My pony had laminitis a couple of years ago and is fully sound with normal feet having been kept barefoot ever since, trimmed correctly and conditioned to road work.

As to horses shod without problems - yes there are some but many more have lots of hidden problems which get worse over the years instead of being cured for good. How many horses do you know who cannot keep shoes on? Horses written off with navicular and laminitis when many should still be sound and healthy?

[shandy84]

I thin it does depend on your farrier and your horse, I have never had a problem with my girls being shod, but have had trouble with them being footsore when in work and barefoot.

I do however think that pulling their shoes once a year for aprox three months is really helpful, they cannot be worked in the first while as the hooves will break away but it gives time for the hoof to become stronger and decide on the shape it is going to be, they then will get reshod when they come back into work.

It's just another way of doing it.

[eventerbabe]

bebe, i use the BEST farrier in the NE of scotland, recently featured in horse and hound coz he's the only farrier that ILPH Belwade will use. he is also employed in fiji by the government to train farriers over there. i was making a point about the robustness and quality of my horses feet.

EDIT: do not agree with keeping lamanitics barefoot. neither my present lamanitic pony or my old PC pony could go barefoot as they became very, very footsore. if the pedal bone has rotated at all and foundering brought the bone closer to the sole of the foot, i'd reckon going barefoot would cause too much pain.

[Yann]

This is a subject that has really come to the fore in recent times, and like I lot of people I've taken a great interest in it and am trying to learn as much as possible.

To read some of the barefoot material you would think that it wasn't possible for horses to continue sound and healthy into old age with shoes on, yet this isn't at all uncommon. And whilst it does happen all too often, it isn't inevitable that the toes will go long or the heels collapse, as has been pointed out a good farrier should be able to prevent this happening.

I'm currently very much on the fence about it as far as my own horse is concerned. If I had a horse that had never had shoes on then I'd do all I could to make sure it stayed that way, but that isn't the case. I'm sure Rio's feet aren't perfect but she has good hard horn free of any stress rings, they are a decent shape and her frogs are healthy. We've never come close to losing a shoe, in fact the farrier has had trouble pulling them at times. Even the rubbish farrier Bebe mentions wasn't able to cause us any problems.

I like being able to jump on and hack for hours over all sorts of surfaces without having to worry about bruising, excessive wear or soreness, that's why I keep a horse. Going barefoot now would mean giving that up for an undefined period after which there's still no guarantee that she would be able to manage what we do. Since there are no apparent issues regarding her being shod that's how I plan to keep it for now, though I'm aware that might change in the future.

If for some reason Rio's workload had to be reduced or curtailed for any period of time I would have her shoes pulled and give it a go though.

[shandy84]

Originally posted by Bebe
Shoeing for shoe making competitions has little bearing on the standard of trim the horse is getting in my experience.

I personally don't think any horse should be shod at aged two though.

Bebe = what would you have done then for my filly who was so footsore at 2 that she couldn't barely walk? That wasn't due to foot trimming etc as she had been seen by specialists in that area incuding super duper BF trimmers? You would rather I would have left a two year old to hobble around like an arthritic old horse, and not even be able to cope in the field and possibly damage her joints and muscle formation because she was walking so badly?!

I think that is too generalised a statement and unfortunate that you made it to be honest, you should know as well as most that you cannot fit horses into boxes dependent on age, breed etc so where one horse can cope without hard feed another can't same with shoeing.

Shoeing, trimming for competitions is extremely hard and if a farrier manages to get a good result that generally shows they know their job, there can still be problems with turning up but that is just the way it is with some people.

[Yann]

Just to add re. the laminitic comment, when we took on our loan pony she was barefoot all round and I was prepared to keep her that way. Unfortunately after a short period she became footsore, which meant she couldn't do the work she needed to help her stay healthy. We had fronts put on and apart from one minore episode she's been fine ever since.

[eventerbabe]

yeah, my lamanitic only has front shoes on at the mo. will be getting a full set when she can come back into full work (we will get the go-ahead (hopefully) this afternoon!).

i've read a lot of good and bad things about going barefoot and new trimming methods but they have not changed my view on things, i will keep my horses shod the way they are.

i find that the best way to keep your farrier AND have him turn up on time is to ply him with coffee and chocolate biscuits! :D

[Bebe]

Bebe = what would you have done then for my filly who was so footsore at 2 that she couldn't barely walk? That wasn't due to foot trimming etc as she had been seen by specialists in that area incuding super duper BF trimmers?

I wouldn't expect you to leave your filly in pain, but then I'd want to know exactly why a young horse was lame in the field. Who exactly were the super duper BF trimmers you saw? There's only recently been any influx in barefoot trimmers in the UK who aren't strasser trained (and I don't agree with strasser at all). I find it hard to believe that a 2yr old horse in no work at all (presumably)cannot be sound in the field without their being something more going on than met the eye.

Even the rubbish farrier Bebe mentions wasn't able to cause us any problems.

TBH, I think that was possibly sheer luck (or maybe bad luck for me and the other horses who went lame) in that this particular farrier only seems able to trim one type of hoof shape, and that was Rio's. I suspect he wasn't/isn't experienced enough to cope with the type of hoof Bebe is predisposed to. I'd say fair enough to that but why couldn't he have just said that and referred me on to another farrier? It would have been a simple way to get around the problem but instead I ended up having to go elsewhere because of the problems he caused. He could have been upfront with me and learnt from the experience but he chose not to.

Shoeing, trimming for competitions is extremely hard and if a farrier manages to get a good result that generally shows they know their job

Yes it is incredibly hard but from what I've been told, by farriers, the competition is judged on the shoe and how it's been attached to the hoof, not the standard of the trim that the hoof had before the shoe went on. I think it should be judged on both, otherwise what's the point?

Eventerbabe, I wasn't having a dig at your farrier, I was just making a comment about shoeing competitions in general.

I'm not saying there are no good farriers out there, just that it seems to be hard to find one (admittedly I'm very picky but that's what having a farrier lame your horse does to you). The farrier Yann uses is decent but wasn't improving my horses hooves which is what she needs, and if I'd left him to continue shoeing her they would have just got worse. Probably hundreds of horses will be fine under his care, mine wasn't one of them.

I'm not a barefoot or die type person, I have absolutely no problem with shoes in general and if someone wants to shoe their horse then all power to them. They're not essential for all horses though.

[shandy84]

My 2 year old was in work. In hand work on roads etc it mean't that her feet were wearing down etc too much for her to cope. This is not unheard of in some horses, some just aren't cut out for barefoot, but it does irritate me when people generalise about horses just because of age etc.

I have been to a competition with my OH and have been behind the scenes and they judge not only the shoe, but the clenching, fitting, trimming and other things, they judge the whole job not just the shoe, if it's nly shoemaking comps then they judge according to how close the shoe they make is to the model the judges have made.

[Bebe]

My 2 year old was in work. In hand work on roads etc it mean't that her feet were wearing down etc too much for her to cope

How much work on roads? 10 mins (in which case I'd agree with you), 20 mins, an hour?

Just to give a different viewpoint, boots would be an option for that kind of situation. How I'd approach this (and it's how I'll be doing it if Bebe can't cope with several hours on the road, though she's done an hour with no probs) would be to handwalk for a short amount of time, cutting it short before the horse became sore. Then use hoof boots to complete the rest of the handwalking. Once the horse had been fine with the short amount of work without boots then I might think about extending the work done without them by 5 mins & reducing the work done with the boots on by 5 mins and go from there.

Obviously this takes a certain amount of time, faffing about and patience but for me it would be worth it to have a healthier hoof in the long term. I'm of this opinion now because I've got someone trimming Bebe's hooves who's doing a bang up job and it's enabling me to do more with her than I anticipated so early on in the day. Without the back-up of this trimmer I'd have to put shoes back on if Bebe couldn't cope in the long term with the work I want her do to, and this is what happened last year.

[cvb]

Amattox - there's a lot of opinion out there on shoeing.

In Uk you get quite a lot of hot shoeing.
In Sweden, its mostly cold.
Both believe they are doing the "right" thing for very logical and scientific reasons.

My farrier in Sweden shod my mare with a shoe where the ends went beyond the edge of the foot (at the back) to give her heels more support. But all she did was tread on them and rip them off :rolleyes: So while it was the "right" thing to do in terms of hoof structure, it didn't do her feet anygood - she was being shod every couple of weeks ! :eek: Next swedish farrier didn't use the sticky out heels, but cold shod - she kept the shoes on better but still took em off now and then.

back to Uk and "normal" UK hot shoeing. Touch wood, she's kept them on for up to 9 weeks (depends on speed of foot growth).

When UK farrier first came to see her he suggested we might need to go barefoot for a while - Appies are renowned for having flakey feet. But when I've asked him since he's said there's no point, as her feet are fine :D

evernterbabe - "i use the BEST farrier in the NE of scotland" Define North East or I shall take offence on behalf of my farrier :mad: (don't think he gets as far as you). Farriers at dawn !:D ;)

[shandy84]

Bebe I have actually had more experience of boots causing problems than shoes as they can rub especially on young changeable feet, just because she is shod doesn't mean her feet will not be as good, as I said before she gets them pulled yearly for them to grow stronger and then will be reshod as she comes back into work, this is because we have a sand school and I tend to hack a lot and this wears the feet quickly, I go through a set of shoes in four weeks when Shandy is in full work.

Bramble was walking out for 30 mins to an hour

[larri]

Well I'm a happy barefooter, Safi has never been shod, and I can't see a situation (unless medical) that she would ever need shoes.

She has been walked out in hand since 18 months old on the lanes where I used to keep her (all road work), and we now hack out for hours on every surface possible with no problems.

Shandy I'm interested to hear that you had so much trouble - Safi had a very similar workload by the sound of it.

[shandy84]

Yeah it was vet and farrier prescribed that she needed to be shod, there was no way around it, when you looked at the way her feet were growing when she was young they were very boxy and low soled, if that's the right way of saying it, it meant she was walking on frog and sole too much and it caused her a lot of pain, it wasn't noticed when she was in our boggy winter field, but as soon as the ground dried up she was lame as they come

[Gill]

Um I thought frog and sole were there for walking on?

PS For Eventerbabe living proof of sound, healed hooves doing the job for which they were intended, and they are even better now:

one year after laminitis (http://groups.msn.com/UpSaddle/gillbpics.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=21510)

[shandy84]

not the soles and not like that she had constant bruising and pain

[Drummers mum]

So, anyone know how I can find a bare foot farrier in my area?

I keep Drummer bare foot but my farrier just trims him...?! When I said I was staying bare foot he looked at me funny! He also couldn't offer any advice as to any supplement etc I should use so I have basicaly left well alone and kept a close eye on the situation!

Now that I want to increase Drummers work load I really could do with some help!

[Drummers mum]

I think I just answered my own question. I searched the web and have emailed 2 people. Any more links or help appreciated though!

[Samsky]

What was it you wanted supplements for?Strengthening his hooves?Biotin is good for that.My pony is barefoot too.He doesnt have any supplements and his feet are fine but I may give him something as he gets older.I'll see how he goes.All farriers should be fine about paring instead of shoeing really.They make enough money as it is.

[entreat]

Originally posted by Gill
Um I thought frog and sole were there for walking on?
Not all the time. As the hoof wall expands (when a step is taken), then the sole & frog can come down & make contact with the ground. My boys are currently wakling on their soles & frogs all the time, so any small rock/pebble is felt.

Won't be an issue soon - I have just found an agistment closer to me, and closer to good farriers. :)

[Bebe]

Shandy, I think we need to agree to disagree and call it a day, we're both obviously coming from very different viewpoints and to be honest I doubt we'll ever find a common ground.

Drummers mum, there's a list of UK equine podiatrists on www.equinepodiatry.com. Don't be put off by how short the list is, most of them travel far and wide to get to clients. My EP travels 170 miles each way to get to me!

[eventerbabe]

@ cvb: by north east i mean aberdeenshire and deeside. i use Daffy Nicol who is used by the local vets hospital for all their remedial cases and the ILPH. he's most embarassed about his recent appearance in horse and hound! he is by far the best up here but is notoriously hard to keep, hence the coffe and buscuits i keep in my tackroom :D

Drummers mum, if you want a good hoof supplement, try farriers formula or formula4feet. formula4feet is geared towards laminitics aswell. but it is expensive, £36 per bucket up here!

[cvb]

Originally posted by eventerbabe
@ cvb: by north east i mean aberdeenshire and deeside. i use Daffy Nicol who is used by the local vets hospital for all their remedial cases and the ILPH. he's most embarassed about his recent appearance in horse and hound! he is by far the best up here but is notoriously hard to keep, hence the coffe and buscuits i keep in my tackroom :D


Ok - I'll behave :D We're lucky that our (very good) farrier actually lives just down the road from us. But he always gets offered proper coffee, and a bacon sarnie if he comes on a weekend morning :D

[Shiny McShine]

My opinion on shoeing, based on the little I know...

The shoeing of horses can be bad for them, and it can be good. Generally shoeing does compromise the structure of the hoof wall, does reduce the natural function of the hoof and can effect the growing hoof of a young horse to some extent.

However...

Shoeing tends to do minimal damage to hooves when carried out by a skilled farrier, and when it is well maintained, ie. shoes are not left on too long. Leaving shoes on too long is the biggest contributor to shoeing related hoof problem.

I don't think shock absorbancy is really effected that badly by shoeing or surely we would see more showjumpers, steeplechasers and other horses that recieve alot of concussion to their feet, without shoes.

Hoof growth and expansion is minimally affected if the shoes are not left on too long... when the hoof begins to grow beyond the shoe then they must be changed.

I agree that it can probably compromise the development of young hooves and shoeing them should be avoided but in some circumstances it may be necessary.

Some horses need shoes and others don't. Shoeing is carried primarily to protect the hoof from wearing down too much due work. Some horses have strong hooves that can withstand alot of work and never need shoeing for protection. Some always need shoeing because the quality of their hoof is poor. If they weren't shod they would be sore, endure injury and not be able to work.

The type of work and the surface will dictate the amount of wear on a hoof. So will the weather. In wet weather the hoof will be soft and will wear down much quicker on hard surfaces, while in dry weather the hoof will be hard and tough for most horse, but some hooves will become brittle when dry, and the ground will also be harder, meaning shoeing may still be required to protect the feet.

If you can avoid shoeing that is probably best, if the work your horse does wears down the hoof quicker than it can grow then it will need shoeing for protection, and this is not always bad if done correctly and mangaged well.

[OlavS]

Originally posted by eventerbabe
i have to agree with virtuallyhorses, look how many horses are shod without any problems??????? Well, look at how many shod horses *have* problems!
Barefoot horses can't be lame for a second before the owner is slagged off for abusing the poor horse. Shod horses not so.

Someone (on the EE forum I think) posted a brilliant thermographic image of a horse that had lost a shoe. That leg was as warm as the body of the horse, whereas the other legs were cold. Assuming that the picture was genuine that would indicate strongly that the shoes had a massive negative impact on the blood circulation!

If so, imagine a leg injury, laminitis or some other thing that needs healing - this healing comes from the blood. By reasoning an unshod horse would recover from a leg injury faster than a shod horse, if everything else was the same. Is that the case? I don't know.

What are the symptoms of a horse that has concussion from impact, how can you tell? What are the short and long term effects? Sorry, I just don't know...joint problems perhaps...?
Many sceptics compare shod horses to us wearing trainers. I can't see that...my trainers have feel and are air or foam cushioned to absorb impact. However, I have some wooden clogs that seem closer to the mark :D I don't think I'll wear them for excercise, though ;)

As for horses going better with "corrective shoeing" don't forget that an unshod horse has the ability to adjust the hoof wear himself, to best suit his needs.

Having said that, my horse is shod, and will be as long as her hooves remain healty and well proportioned.

[eventerbabe]

Barefoot is not an option for me and its not a road i would consider going down. i have a lamanitic who can NEVER go barefoot and my horse does a lot of roadwork, jumping and xc. shoeing works for me and both my horses have good feet. i have no option but to have remedial farriery done on my lamanitic, it has re-aligned the pedal bone and she is now sound as a bell. barefoot may work for others but its not my cup of tea i'm afraid.

[shandy84]

It probably has something to do with being engaged to a farrier tend to hear all the rubbish that they deal with to do with people going barefoot without thinking it through. I still maintain, there is no reason not to shoe (unless your horse has hardwearing feet) if the farrier is as skilled as he should be unfortuntaly you have had bad experiences with your farrier Bebe and I remember you telling me about them a little while ago and while I sympathise, I do believe that some horses in work will never be comfortable barefoot yet some will be more so.

[Gill]

Well I certainly have no bad experiences with my farrier and he is the one who is so enthusiastic about taking off shoes and promoting healthy all round horse care.

He still shoes as well and is proud to say that all the horses at the stables he shoes and trims for are now landing heel first as they should.

[Megans mum]

Just jumping in with my eyes closed'''''''''' why do you need shoes on a 2yr old? surely it should not be doing enough road work to harm its feet' I have a rising 3 yr old and she goes on the road once a week just to get her legs dry and to wear her feet and acustom them to hard surfaces' she has never had shoes is white footed and has lovely feet' all my horses are bare foot and have been for years between them' the least longest is 2yrs and he is a heavy cob' his feet are better now than they have every been he stopped tripping and the arthritis in his back hock is much better' I just think that initially it takes a lot of dedication and time to get a shod horse to go bare foot but for me it has been worth it' read the chosen road by KC Lapier' most blacksmiths don't trim for bare foot either' they do a pasture trim which is not the same at all'''''' sorry about the length of this but it is a passion of mine' :(

[Yann]

I've just had a look through The Chosen Road and found it very interesting if a bit too technical in places:D I would have to take issue with a couple of the assertions in there though, that all shod horses inevitably end up with long toes and collapsed heels (by age 14?) and that a shod foot inevitably becomes badly distorted. As has already been pointed out these things can and do happen, but aren't inevitable by any means.

[Shalom]

my 2 cents. about 5 years ago my horse Shay stepped on a piece of heavy wire. to make a long story short he still limped until about 3 months ago a friend loaned me some books on barefoot trimming, i read them and thought this sounds pretty cool! i started trimming him myself and here are the results; he is a completly different horse!!!! limp is 100% gone! i can ride him now no limp! pavment, rocks, gravel no problem! also he is a much happier horse, he was always very sour before,(even before the injury) and had no go at all now he will happyly trot and run if i let him! and he will actually let me cuddle him! call me crazy but im a believer! now i trim all 3 horses and all are a lot happier.:D

[Tangle]

Originally posted by OlavS
As for horses going better with "corrective shoeing" don't forget that an unshod horse has the ability to adjust the hoof wear himself, to best suit his needs.
Once they are basically well balanced, yes, but they may need corrective shoeing to get to that point :).

When we bought Fifi her whole way of going had been adjusted to strike toe-first on her fronts because striking heel first was causing pain in the deep digital flexor tendon (of course the pain was getting worse because she was striking toe first.....). The bones in her foot were starting to sag downwards due to the un-intended forces she was exerting on them. She had corrective shoeing, and the farrier was able to introduce enough of change in her foot balance (using good trimming, natural balance shoes and slight heel wedges) that she was landing flat as soon as the first set went on. She's now on her 4 set and has lost the wedges, but still has nylon pads to make sure the frog is stimulated with every stride.

Will she be able to stay sound without shoes in the future - with good trimming, quite possibly.

Could she have recovered her balance without the corrective shoeing? I honestly don't think so :)

We were lucky that the vet picked up on the fact that for a horse with her breeding she should have better movement than she was showing at the vetting. She's now developing the paces she was bred for. I'd definately say she's going better with corrective shoeing :).

[shandy84]

Megans Mum - Simple the pony was in PAIN!

What do you mean by white footed?! All horses have different coloured feet one of mine has stripy feet doesn't say they're better than any other.

I had a vet and farrier tell me the pony would SUFFER if not shod. This is due to the way her feet grew when BAREFOOT.

Stop criticising people who shoe their horses especially for remedial reasons, I will never say every horse will go barefoot because I'm not that ignorant if a horse is to stay in work SOME cannot go barefoot.

Do not underestimate me and say I am no dedicated just because mine are shod, I have brought a wild filly on to become a nice little pony and that takes a lot of grit and dedication

[Gill]

I am sure we are all doing what we believe best for our horses. whatever method that might be.

However what I do now, aged 50+ after a lifetime of learning, which still goes on, is quite different to what I would have done in my twenties. We truly do 'live and learn'

If you are interested in learning about foot problems being rehabilitated then you can do no better than learn from this Help for Horse foot problems (http://www.hoofrehab.com/)

[entreat]

Ok... to the people who know who they are - calm down.

We all understand that to shoe or not is a very personal decision based on personal experiences. Any other way is almost imposible as there are great reasons for doing both.

Shandy: White hooves are typically softer than others. Don't know how true it is. My stock pony had mostly white hooves, and were as tough as nails - didn't need a shoe!

[jsr]

I have 1 boy who is unshod, and another who is shod. They both have strong healthy hoofs but this year I struggled with thrush on the shod horse, while unshod boy has no problems at all. His frog is always so much healthier than the others. They are both kept together so it isn't the field that is the problem.
I would like my shod horse to eventually be unshod but at the moment I don't think his feet are healthy enough to take the transition to unshod.

I do think it is silly for people to get so wound up about these issues, it is all personal choice, if it works for you then fine. I would always make sure I was fully informed about any new thing I was introduction to my animals and education is a wonderful thing!

[shandy84]

Entreat had a look at your link, interesting philosophy behind it, have to say though that farrier texbooks have changed a lot now and are more based on balance and triming than this guy suggests (I know old texts were poor in this area) Dave's trims don't differ in view than the ones shown on the site, he has always been told he s good at attaining good balance etc - fortnate as he's the only farrier I have I suppose

"white footed and has lovely feet"
Entreat my question about white feet was made due to the above comment, I was trying to say that you don't see white hooves as the perfect hoof they come in all colurs, as you say though there is a theory that white ones are weaker.

I think I will appologise for getting hot under the collar :o but I do get irritated with all horses being put into little boxes, as Megans Mum maybe mistakenly did, but i tend to walk youngsters out from an early age about 1 year old to get them boomproof and safe, it's the way I have always done things and we have had great benefits because of this, the comment "why do you need shoes on a 2yr old? surely it should not be doing enough road work to harm its feet" felt too judgemental for me.

sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick

[entreat]

Like our horses, most of us here are very forgiving ;)

It all depends on the surface you are taking your horses out on. Roads can be very smooth, or very rocky, and most of us are sensible enough to know how much their horses feet can take.

I don't know anythign about young horses (or children!), so I wouldn't know the average age for shoeing, or how much work they are meant to be in. But I do love the idea of taking them out for inhand walks to get them very used to the world.

[cvb]

LOL - you should worry - I take my NINE year old mare out for walks in hand to get her used to the world :rolleyes:

[Pink's lady]

OlavS

Someone (on the EE forum I think) posted a brilliant thermographic image of a horse that had lost a shoe. That leg was as warm as the body of the horse, whereas the other legs were cold. Assuming that the picture was genuine that would indicate strongly that the shoes had a massive negative impact on the blood circulation!

Yep, that was me, the last time this argumant came up!;)

Here's the picture again (hopefully).

It was in the general thread:

Makes very intersting reading, and brings up some good points.Barefoot (http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44020&highlight=barefoot)

This shows a thermograph of a horse with one shoe on. Guess which leg!

http://www.newrider.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=452511

[shandy84]

Sorry pink's lady, what am i actually looking at colourwise here? The reason I ask is that I was always taught that bright colours show a lot of heat and blues show coldness how would this relate to shoe/no shoe and the picture

[Pink's lady]

Oh, yeah, sorry, should have said.:o

Right - The warm colured areas (yellow and red) are the hottest areas, which indicate a good blood flow.

The dark, cold coloured areas (blue and green) are where there is less blood flow.

It is just demonstarting how putting shoes on a horse is damaging to circulation in their feet, as the hooves pump-action is limited when shod.

There is a big discusion (and argument;) ) on it on the barefoot thread.

[Wally]

Sadly they anti shoeing folk tend to go SO FAR over the top with their beleifs that they cloud the true issues.

I have both shod and unshod horses. Shilling WAS laminitic, he hates gravell and stoney roads, since most of his work is on soft ground he stays sound barefoot. Should his work load dictate shoes and he asked for them he would get them. If he says he is getting foot sore he will have the best. He's a star.....and at 20 he has been shod most of his life, only the last 5 he has been 100% barefoot. But his workload is decreasing not planned to go up at his age.

Hákon can go barefoot behind but NEVER in front. He has weird front feet, left to wear by his own action he'd cripple himself over time. Hákon is shod 4X4 summer and 2X4 in winter.

My old horse was 34 when he was put to sleep in August. He was shod from the age of 10 ( he'd been a stud horse and never ridden 'till then) His feet were neglected. He was shod for years, never had a day's lamness.

I could go on right down to little Whiffy 24 inches of dear sweet thing. She has shoes in the summer as she drives on the road a great deal, She wears "key ring" shoes:D :D and I wish I didn't have to shoe her, but she gets foot sore if we don't, simple as that.

Listen to the horse, don't blindly follow fashion, or what others have done with their horse. You are a unique combination, what suits others will not neccessarily suit you.

[Pink's lady]

Listen to the horse, don't blindly follow fashion, or what others have done with their horse. You are a unique combination, what suits others will not neccessarily suit you.

Well said Wally. I'm pro-barefooted, but two of my horses are shod as they need to be. In an ideal world, all horse would go barefooted, as it is better for them, but there are a great many horses out there who can't manage.

I just feel it's sad that so many people unnessarily shoe their horse just because it's 'traditional'.

[Aphrodite]

Hi there.

Every horse I have ridden has been shod, although I don't really have an opinion for or against. I think if possible, it is always possible to keep horses as natural as possible.

However I do acknowledge that this can be difficult due to our surroundings, ie, the countryside would be easier than a town.

There are a number of different types of shoeing available, traditional, natural balance and cytek being only 3. I considered cytek once as i read that it had helped a lot of horses with severe gait and joint problems. However, it has also had a lot of bad press. It just depends on the horse (and obviously the skill of the farrier). I never ended up using it as there wasn't a cytek farrier in the area.

Regarding the shock absorption issue, there are alternatives to metal shoes.

There was a feature in one of the popular horsey magazines a while back regarding plastic shoes. Apparently shock absorption was much increased therefore aiding horses usually stiff or sore in metal shoes.

I also don't think hoof boots should be written off. I have seen many people on endurance (pleasure) rides using them on their horses. Some people put thick socks (like foot ball socks!) on their horses feet, securing them with tape, before they put the boot on to prevent rubbing. Looks very odd (i'm sure you could cut them short though) but it seems to do the trick.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[eventerbabe]

i forked out £250 on a pair of front imprint (plastic) shoes and they were the biggest con and waste of money. i do not reccomend them. this thread seems to have provoked a lot of emotion. i chose to have my horses shod because i believe it is best for them with the level of work my gelding does and coz my mare is lamanitic. i am more than willing to listen to new trimming techniques but its a personal choice as to whether or not you want your own horse to be shod or go barefoot. only you know your horse.

[Megans mum]

Sorry iff I came on strong' :( just been reading about someone wanting a bit for a 6month old and got the wrong end of the stick as usuall' :mad: I too have always walked my youngsters in hand for the first 4 yrs to get them used to all the dragons and tigers they will meet along the roads' as you say it is very good and means they don't get slung in the deep end when you ride out' the comment about white feet was said as years ago it was thought that white feet were weaker than dark' the only downside to white legs nowadays I think is that they show the mud better' :) anyway this is a great site for saying what you want and so appologies iff I have offended anyone'